CTV Vancouver Uses ‘Prices Plunging’ In News Headline

ctv-dec-2016
Sober hosts

Listing prices for detached homes appear to be falling as Vancouver’s real estate market faces what an expert calls “significant headwinds.”
Data released Friday showed that those looking to buy a single family detached home in the city last month forked over about $1.5 million in Metro Vancouver, but recent listings suggest that the benchmark is falling.
CTV News found a number of East Vancouver homes priced under then $1 million mark during a search of MLS listings on Monday, including one that sold for $560,000 below the initial asking price.
That home, located in Renfrew Heights, was initially listed at $1.36 million in August, but sold for $800,000 in mid-November.
Sutton West Coast realtor David Hutchinson has been tracking plunging prices and found several detached homes listed below $1 million, some of which had been recently renovated.
“If you want to sell, you have to be priced sharply, and you see a lot of price drops,” Hutchinson told CTV.

– from ‘Prices plunging: Houses selling well below asking, some under $1M’, Penny Daflos, 5 Dec 2016

Sales have slowed and prices are beginning to soften. Fundamentals remain shockingly poor, and there are ‘headwinds’ like rising mortgage rates and financing restrictions. 2017 will tell whether this is the beginning of the crash we’ve expected for years. – vreaa

77 responses to “CTV Vancouver Uses ‘Prices Plunging’ In News Headline

  1. The last thing that bulls can accuse the mainstream media of, and I do mean the last, is of holding a bearish bias.

  2. Somewhat misleading article. There are 662 MLS listings for a house on the East side of Vancouver. The lowest price for a house on a standard (33 x 120) lot is 998,000. The vast majority of product in the 1 – 1.2 million range is offered at land value, is on a crazy busy street, or is in need of a six figure renovation.

    The market has fallen, no doubt about it. A fair amount of homes are starting to stay listed for months instead of days. When you look at asking prices, it’s amazing how often they are 40% or more higher than the July 2015 assessed value. You have to ask yourself if the owners are serious about selling or whether it’s a “wish” listing.

    Arnie Carnegie is correct in his parsing of the market. When you look at houses on offer in East Vancouver, and you apply a realistic screen of decent sized lot with a bit of a yard, a house in need of only cosmetic updates, not located on a major street, the amount of product available is actually very limited, even up to 1.5 million.

    If I was a young person waiting to buy, I would sit on the sidelines to see how this continues to play out. If you realistically have a ten year window of buying there is no point in jumping into this unsettled market. Opportunity may favour the cautious. Tough to pick a bottom in any market though.

    • .. or worst still the main floor window is at the street level, because the house is on the wrong side of the road. .. and what if one has lost a decade while sitting on the sidelines … ?

      10 years ago, a 2-bedoom condo with water view at Harborside rented privately for $980. This sum shall rent an equivalent of a 1-bedroom affordable housing unit in Richmond. http://
      oi68.tinypic.com/xcskra.jpg
      The owner got a good deal for that waterfront 2-bedroom unit then, paying less than $300k. A 1-bedroom condo in that Richmond development on the 17th floor is asking $360k.

    • Vancouver Elliott Wave Analysis.

      The bottom will be just above the 2008/9 high. We will make a new high.

    • I’m really happy to see those new neighbours who bought at the height of the market having to ride down this much. Not only did some lose their entire nest egg, they are now owing money on the home. The panic on some of their faces are beautiful to see, especially when they put all their eggs in one basket.

      • Understandable sentiment but they’re not the villains, developers, realtors and all levels of government are.

  3. rod_jonsson_pmd

    #1 on list of things that matter … http://tinyurl.com/zd85wrx

  4. keep crying wolf, vreaa! how many years now?

    • Well over seven.
      Actually, I thought RE in Vancouver was overvalued well before that, even.. 2006-2007, even earlier… so, well over ten years.
      Yeah, it’s embarrassing, I’ll give you that.. (not to mention, ‘inconvenient’…).
      Of course,… if the wolf does indeed end up belatedly arriving…
      then, the village idiot turns into the sage prophet.

      Until then, one learns to enjoy idiocy.

      • On December 27, 1999, Barron’s published a piece entitled, “What’s Wrong, Warren?” which suggested “Warren Buffett may be losing his magic touch.”

        ‘Nuff said.

      • I have to add that you have faithfully predicted that prices will be sticky going down. And here we are !

      • Speaking of sage profit, many who are getting returns on the S&P500 rally are getting to be like this.

    • [Politico] – America’s First Real Estate Presidency

      …”Then there’s Trump’s unique relationship with the truth, which earned him a chart-busting 59 four-Pinocchio ratings from Washington Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler during the campaign. That’s a whole lot of big, fat lies in a very short period; but by developer standards, it’s a modest haul. Developers, to remain solvent, must crumple reality in a manner that keeps their clients, contractors, suppliers, partners and bankers content. It’s a business in which lying is not a sin but a virtue. After all, the clients, contractors and suppliers are all lying to the developer, too. These lies aren’t white lies in real estate land, they’re green, situational truths spoken in the pursuit of dollars. Trump’s business training clearly gave him a grounding in lying that has served him well in politics. He brazenly said on more than a dozen occasions during the campaign that he had never said things that he was on record saying. Lying worked so well for him that we can expect a surplus of Pinocchios and Pants-on-Fire ratings from the press when his lies emanate from the Oval Office. “Serious voter fraud in Virginia,” he lied on Twitter two weeks ago, giving us a preview.”…

      http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/donald-trump-real-estate-presidency-214504

      • rod_jonsson_pmd

        there’s a lot to criticize but msm, corp media are not reliable … just establishment propaganda, now fully exposed … easy for trump to play foil to the hysterical reactions, russophobia, fake racism, ultimately appear very normal and reasonable

    • I want Silver Prices to be great again. Like back in 2011. 2016 looked like it was going to take off but failed to do so after August. Making India great again without corruption Prime Minister Modhi demonetized the 1000 and Rupee notes. What he did is also regulate gold by requiring PAN number and registering ownership of it. Silver is not, thus, silver is the metal that will survive. Making China great again, let the sovereign wealth fund of China buy property in Vancouver.

    • [Xinhua] – China captures 2,442 fugitives from abroad since 2014

      BEIJING, Dec. 9 (Xinhua) — China’s anti-corruption watchdog revealed that since 2014, 2,442 people have been captured in the country’s campaign to return fugitives who have fled overseas.

      According to an article posted Friday by the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Commission for Discipline Inspection (CCDI) on its website, 2,442 people, including 397 state officials, were captured or returned from over 70 countries or regions and more than 8.5 billion yuan (1.2 billion U.S. dollars) of illegal assets have been recovered.

      The article said that in the first 11 months this year, the “Sky Net” campaign alone has accounted for 908 returnees and recovered 2.3 billion yuan in illegal assets.

      A total of 19 people named as China’s top 100 fugitives released in an Interpol “red notice” have returned this year, bringing the total number of the people on the list who have returned so far to 37.

      http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-12/09/c_135893661.htm

    • Vancouver Elliott Wave Analysis.

      So what are you saying? That Vancouver should be like Japan and restrict real estate purchases for foreigners? Or should we only go as far as Australia where you still can, but pay taxes and require them to make homes new? Perhaps getting them to redevelop Strathcona and Downtown East side to allow the purchase of the land in exchange for new development. Gentrification works better than policing with respect to the need to get rid of junkies.

  5. “In 2012, the City of Vancouver entered into a land swap deal with a local developer called Brenhill Properties ………………….. Ernst and Young acknowledges that the city may provide this report to its advisors, and in the case of this land swap deal, one of those advisors appears to be the China Investment Corporation, the $800 billion sovereign wealth fund of Communist China..”

    David Lee Emerson …
    … also became a member of the International Advisory Council of the Chinese sovereign wealth fund China Investment Corporation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Emerson

  6. Vancouver Elliott Wave Analysis.

    Vancouver Real Estate According to the Elliottwave analysis completed a 3 wave rally, and we have confirmation that we have begun the Wave 4. We should see a A wave drop followed up by a B wave corrective rally that will not reach the prior wave 3 high, followed by a wave C that will take us below the bottom of Wave 4 of A. We will then have an new all time high after the wave 5. (Wave 1 was the 2007/8 high wave 2 was the real estate crash.)
    So those wanting to buy in should bee looking for home prices around just above the high of 2008 before the Lehman bros crash. Invalidation of the wave count indicating that there is going to be no wave 5 having this wave count as a WXY pattern instead will come to lighting we get below the 2007/8 high.

    • Vancouver Elliott Wave Analysis.

      Those who wish to pick a bottom should look to jump in just above the 2007/8 high.

    • Vancouver Elliott Wave Analysis.

      Feel free to write to [email address removed -ed.] we are getting close to reaching a bull market in precious metals soon. Vancouver real estate is on a wave 4, so buy precious metals and sell them to participate in the final hurrah of the Bancouver real estate market.

  7. A roomful of monkeys throwing darts would be more accurate than this muddle – a pile of drivel. Since this piece of spam has an email link one can surmise there’s a “financial planner” at the other end looking to “invest” your money. Nutbar would be a more accurate handle. If you find this “analysis” credible, there are lots of Nigerian princes that want to get their hands on your sack. This “Bancouverite” is a bullshit artist.

    • While we’re at it, Arnie, please continue to comment here, but I would respectfully request more respect and less vitriol (reference to your recent posts critical of specific realtors — we get the idea).

  8. Drivel meets drivel.

  9. When real estate rodents engage in trickery, they should be held to account. When an alias spams mumbo jumbo, that too should be called out. It deserves ridicule.

  10. Oh I love the media. True this is indeed sensational news and while it is true prices have declined, plunge is a really strong word. Don’t believe me, try buying something decent in this market, not the garbage that they describe and see how “low” prices can plunge. It took hong kong 6 monthes for their foreign buyer’s tax to fully take its toll so I will be very interested to see what happens in feburary. Again, I will believe it when I can pick up a decent lot (nothing fancy, just decent enough for me to build an average house) on the west side for 1 mil. I did have a few conversations with friends and suggested they take the opportunity, but issue is that when they look for decent properties, there is still nothing cheap out there, so until that changes, this so called plunge is doing nothing for the majority of us unless you really want some really annoying feature with your property. I won’t elaborate what they are as Arnie seems much pickier than I am on this particular point.

    • “Oh I love the media”

      Ah, yes, the media. Those old party poopers! Always talking down real estate. They really should be called out for using “strong words”. Kind of like “surging”, “red hot”, “skyrocketing”, and others. Oh wait, not those ones. Those ones are good.

      • And hence why you never see me posting media stories on here with those words. Media is sensationalist, they will always choose the most prime listing when things go up and the worst listing when things go down. Come on, you didn’t expect anything else did you?

  11. I wasn’t always so picky. Back in early ’04 when I was looking hard at properties, a listing agent showed me 1117 Cartier in Coquitlam. It was a curious showing – she was so negative about the property that I didn’t know why she was even showing it. I was pretty naive about old houses back then. She scared me off. Had I been more knowledgeable, I’d have bought.

    List price was $269.9K. It was on a 5053 sq/ft lot and was cash flow positive with three units at a rate of 4.65%.

    Looking back at the sales history of the property, someone bought it just a week later for $264.5K. Three years later it had a new semicustom house and sold for $793K. Its last assessment was $1.087M. The equity uptick between 2007 and 2016 is paltry compared to Vancouver.

    On the plus side for that location – it was south facing and had a great view, but there was no back lane and the whine from Hwy 1 was penetrating. Noise pollution is hard to avoid. The West Side is no exception.

  12. Below a million? Goodness gracious that’s a serious cock tease that is!

  13. To those who are now excited about finding a “bottom”: You’re like Forrest Gump in the scene where he ejaculates in his pants. It will months and years before value emerges in Vancouver RE.

    • And if that is indeed the case, how does that help people who want to live here and need stability? Like if it takes 10 years for this thing to correct, then what is the point? It’s not like the vancouver rental market is really in favor of renters with a 0.6 percent vacancy rate. So even if you are ok with renting, which is a whole other can of worms, you would be in one of the most insane rental markets in history.

  14. Know who you’re competing with, and they are not shy to knock your teeth off, if need be.
    This isn’t lining up for that Earnest Ice Cream.
    ………………………………

    http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-government-offers-down-payment-loans-to-first-time-homebuyers
    To be eligible, a homeowner must:
    • Have been a Canadian citizen or permanent resident for at least five years.
    • Have lived in B.C. for at least one year prior to the sale.

    • From the article:

      “It keeps the housing continuum moving along. We need these first time homebuyers. Anything that can be done to help them get into the market at that stage is a positive thing.”

      First of all, I love the term, “housing continuum”. Vreaa, that’s another gem for your compendium of bubble phraseology.

      Second, why are taxpayers funding other people’s homeownership? And why encourage greater indebtedness at a time when household debt is already at record levels, rates are rising, and prices are peaking? There is no economic or moral case for this absurd program. Shame on the Liberals.

      • Which option is better? Tax payers funds the bottom-less homelessness, druggies…or homeownership! Bears’ mindset is strange. They just hate people owning home. Go Christy team!

      • I think we should simply end dual citizenship. First Canada made all dual citizens get a Canadian passport rather than use the passport of their other country due to eTA visa requirements for non Canadians. The second step should be a requirement for all Canadians to choose a single nationality by the age of majority. Those who have dual citizenship with Canada and another country should be required to renounce their native citizenship. Children acquiring Canadian citizenship by birth or descent should be required to choose at the age of 19 which citizenship they should retain. Canada needs to send notification of their choice if they choose Canada and a certificate of renounciation must be provided to be submitted for one to retain Canadian citizenship. Those who choose the country of their other citizenship or who are unable to renounce their other citizenship should be reverted to Permanent Residency status in this one off situation. This will prevent those from becoming Canadian if convenience. If a permanent resident leaves for a long period of time, they will simply lose their status.

      • Not against people owning homes. Against someone else having to pay for them.

      • Seeking Knowledge

        I fully agree. I don’t hate everything the provincial Liberals are doing, but this one makes no sense…other than buying votes.

      • #WhyAren’tTheHardHatsSmiling?,Or… #Hey,RichColemanDoesn’tLookTooHappyEither!…

      • Nothing taxpayers can do about it now. Just make sure deserving locals benefit from this program, and not scammers who drive Porsche, BMW, and have fat bank accounts overseas..

    • BC Home Partnership “interest-free” loan is a drop in the water (not very helpful), and the applicants’ prerequisites are onerous. A 30-year old new immigrant who landed here 3 years ago, suggests the provincial government be more creative such as to remove taxes related to purchasing of real estate.

      He is ready to buy his first home, preferably in Richmond or Vancouver West, a townhome or a small 4-bedroom detached home.
      http://tinyurl.com/hcrpr6l

      • Vancouver real estate can be brought down by regulations just like Gold has dropped due to registration requirements by PM Modhi of India as he demonetized the 1000 and 500 Rupee notes. Janet Yellen who normally is timid about raising interest rates has also brought down gold by threatening three rate hikes. Part of the reason is because Sharia Gold will be open to the markets next year, world governments and central banks have decided to bring down the price of Gold. Trump will definitely work with JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs in bringing down gold prices. Just as the gold rally was successfully quashed surprising everyone, the Vancouver housing market can be corrected with steep interest rate hikes which will follow suit with the United States having to do it to combat terrorism preventing Sharia Gold from rising.

      • rod_jonsson_pmd

        you are giving the planners waayyyy too much credit … rates are headed up because the CBs are losing control, not because they want them there … fed’s v small hike was mostly about maintaining some credibility … the market had already forced them … gold a very emotional market – got ahead of itself and was coming back some anyway … trump euphoria knocks it down more … modi’s stunt short-term negative but long-term positive … let’s see what another six months brings … there’s a bunch of billionaires with real world practical skills in govt now … but it doesn’t mean everything that was done the wrong way in the last 2 – 3 decades can be remedied without having to endure some real pain … growth is stalling out so the ww pie isn’t going to get much bigger … it may even start shrinking for a while … there is going to be a mad, vicious scrap for what remains … between nations, between factions and generations within nations … this is going to get nasty before it gets better … pfffft! … holiday replay … http://tinyurl.com/zy5636w

  15. Asian and Chinese buyers are not that stupid, unless …. they are money-laundering.
    http://tinyurl.com/huspy2x

    2660 Croydon Drive, Surrey, BC
    advertised in Beijing as a 10.9 acre residential development site in “Vancouver, Canada.” The asking price is $21,000,000 for the rights to the agricultural land where “the owner has applied to the City of Surrey for Development Permit to develop four residential towers of 18 storeys each.” Since the land isn’t approved for building yet, and it’s currently zoned as agricultural land – the assessment value for the address listed is $9,538. Heck, the whole zip code is only assessed at $11,464,838. It was apparently purchased by the owner in 1970 for $27,500. A 76,263% return over 46 years is a solid return.

    4075 Dominion Street , Burnaby BC
    Listed as “Burnaby-Vancouver,” this 4 bedroom is on Craigslist Hong Kong as Hong Kong real estate for sale by the broker. The listing is asking Hong Kong buyers for $1,175,000 plus taxes for the recently renovated suburban duplex. It’s also listed on the Canadian MLS for a $1,140,000 – so you can “save” $35,000 by spending twenty seconds and putting the home’s address into Baidu.

    9318 205 Street , Langley BC
    This slick unit is being sold as a 4 bedroom in “Vancouver, Canada,” but is actually located in Langley. The house is listed on Hong Kong’s Craigslist for $1,720,000 by “the owner” – which doesn’t seem that bad considering it does have top of the line finishes. Property records show it was purchased for $1,250,000 in January 2015 – a 37% markup before the foreign buyer tax.

  16. Vancouver-Singtao interviewed James SueYi Lan and Danni Li, both medical specialists at VGH and St Paul Hospital. The couple cannot afford a house in Vancouver West, and are now looking at North Vancouver.
    Lan’s parents, who emigrated from Taiwan, reside in Richmond. Five years ago, they sold their SFH in Vancouver-West and used some of that money to help Lan to buy a 1000sqft 2-bedroom condo Downtown.
    Danni Li’s parents who were dentists in China, emigrated to Toronto 20 years ago. They are nearing retirement, and still work as dental hygienists. They previously suggested selling their Toronto house to help their daughter purchase a SFH in Vancouver, but Li was unwilling to go that route.
    The article ends on a happy note, per google translate.
    http://tinyurl.com/za6wak7

  17. #NewOwnersArriveToConductInspectionTour…

    • [G&M] – No deterrent for prolific illegal hotels in Richmond: Property owners found with multiple suites include host of recent PM dinner, Kathy Tomlinson and Xiao Zu report

      …” Several hotels advertised on Chinese-language websites are illegally run out of Vancouver-area houses, each offering several rooms and services that include use of the house as an ongoing personal mailing address for clients to receive Canadian immigration documents and health-care cards.

      Multiple suites for short-term paying guests are not allowed in single-family homes, particularly when the property is not the owner’s primary residence. Longer-term rental units also technically are not permitted, unless they have been approved by the city and have a limited number of tenants.

      Vancouver and Richmond have been criticized for not clamping down on illegal operations. Despite hundreds of complaints, not a single fine has been issued…

      … Two such properties, which were investigated in recent years for suspected illegal suites by the city of Richmond, are owned by businessman Miaofei Pan, a real estate developer who entertained Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in his Vancouver mansion last month at a private fundraising dinner for the Liberal Party.

      Those homes, held by Mr. Pan’s company since 2008, were cited for health and safety infractions in 2011 and 2015, including fire hazards, carbon monoxide leaks and having multiple suites with up to 13 people living there. Inspection records say the owner initially resisted making repairs because he wanted to demolish and redevelop the property.:…

      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/no-deterrent-for-prolific-illegal-hotels-inrichmond/article33356860/

      • A family member of mine once looked at a place close to Joyce that was a nine suiter, the seller said he had connections in China to arrange for short-term stay clients. Apparently he had a B&B license, with the SE one “B” being a bao and cup of tea. I never went in to the place to look at the state of the former “B”s, but I assume they meet a basic level of acceptability in accordance with provincial regulations. Sounds like quite the business.

      • This is kind of bs, governments should take action, this is basically breaking the law. But I bet our government just takes it sitting down. No backbone at all.

    • [CBC] – Condo development prompts eviction of popular Vancouver lantern festival

      …”A popular, free winter festival is at risk because its production space is being demolished to make way for a new condo development in downtown Vancouver.

      “The situation is definitely tied in with Vancouver’s real estate market that’s just created this marvelous situation for some people and incredible hardship for others,” said Naomi Singer, artistic director of the Winter Solstice Lantern Festival.

      “Land is so valuable that I’m really hoping that people see culture as equally important.”…

      …Singer says she’s not given up hope just yet, but she does have bad days.

      “I wouldn’t say I haven’t had the fantasy of just taking everything out to a large parking lot and having a healing, burning farewell bonfire, and saying I just have to do something else,” she said, holding back tears.

      “Because this just isn’t sustainable.”

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-real-estate-lantern-festival-1.3902150

      • If society thinks this is important then government needs to setup art spaces rather than have them scour in private space here. We are not the only city having this issue, San Fran has a similar problem with culture. It is not up to the private sector or the market to provide non market rents. There is a reason why we have government whom we pay with our taxes to take care of these types of things if we feel it is important enough to deal with. I don’t see the big issue with this.

  18. An excellent report from Ian Young 2 days ago on Skeena Pulp Mill C$200m loan scam, and Ni Ritao’s lie to Canadian court about bribery conviction. But we want more juicy details.

    The downfall of the BC businessman (who owns Skeena Pulp Mill’s 109 hectares land) and the former Director of China National Energy Administration (jailed for life in 2014 Dec) are attributed to one woman. It was said that she studied and worked in Japan, and later emigrated to Vancouver, where she took care of their messy business affairs and the jailed official’s son studying in Vancouver at that time. The media identified her only as Xu.

    Xu advised the Ex-Energy Director to abandon the Skeena loan scam because of the fraudulent risk was too great. When she tried to break away from the fraudulent business, Ni Ritao threatened to kill her if she resigned because she already knew too much. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and she exposed them through a news reporter. (“Feel too risky to resign”- Para#1, 6th from the bottom)
    http://tinyurl.com/jgwafvc

    • No one in the Canadian Court read foreign language newspapers, so no one will ever know the truth. Keep lying, BOZO!

      News dd 2015 November 28
      Zhejiang native and businessman, Ni Ritao, returned to public eyeball after a 3-year span.
      Par#3 – On 2015 January 20th, Ni Ritao was sentenced to two years jail term on charges of corruption and falsifying official documents. Since he had been on remand by the various authorities for periods of 6 months plus a further 19 months, his jail sentence terminated on March 18th.
      http://tinyurl.com/jead249

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