“Things have changed, we are not doing that type of mortgage. We are not interested at all.”

“I am currently interested in a piece of property in the burbs; a unique property which is why I would be willing to move on purchasing now at today’s prices. This is land, no house. I am eminently mortgagable… credit scores at almost 900, dual income, large amount of assets. Approached M-Cap, BMO, Enbridge, People Trust, CIBC, TD, and a couple of others for financing. Still waiting for 1 or 2 answers to come in.. but.. 5 institutions say “things have changed, we are not doing that type of mortgage, we are not interested at all” (without even inquiry into our situation). 3 institutions say “we would only consider a higher interest builders mortgage”. And by higher they really mean higher… Wow. Remains to be seen if financing can be had.”
Burbs Boy at VCI 24 May 2013 4:51pm

45 responses to ““Things have changed, we are not doing that type of mortgage. We are not interested at all.”

  1. LendersAppetites on the wane?… Could it be the dreaded Ursus Americanus?

    [CBC] – Feasting Bears Rampage Through Burnaby: Mounties Stymied

    Mounties in a Burnaby, B.C., neighbourhood are patrolling the area after several bears were spotted feasting on trash this morning.


    [NoteToEd: C’mon, you know my HeadLine was better. WayBetter.]

    • In other news UrsusAmericanus CBC BC [now mysteriously missing from the FrontPage/OtherHeadLinesStream – QuelleSurprise!]…

      “The housing market is an accident waiting to happen. If there is some sort of macro shock, there’s a lot of dead air where house prices are now and where historically they should be,” said Ben Rabidoux, creator of the blog Economic Analyst, which looks into housing and mortgage trends. “And there’s a sort of saying that a market waiting for an accident to happen usually finds its accident. And that’s how I would describe it.”

      [CBC] – Why are home prices so high and when will they fall?: Loose credit fuelled the boom, analysts say, but a correction is coming


      [NoteToEd: The ReadersComments are ParticularlyLively! TeeHee!]

    • Real Estate Tsunami

      The Bears are taken over the Burbs.
      Vancouver and Richmond are next!

    • “I like huntin’ and I like fishin’… It’s like, where does it end? What are they coming for next? Guys like me have been getting charged for trying to do the right thing and the bears [just] keep copulating, unfettered… [and] when they turn on you, you better be prepared.” – Greg Klem, Vancouver Island ‘Sportsman’

      [CBC] – Ursuscide Conviction Overturned: Port Renfrew Man says BC not doing enough about nuisance bears


  2. As the “Crown” claims all ownership of the “Physical Land”…
    The Banks can only truly attach the “Physical Asset”, or “Equity” … I.E. a building on the land.
    No building, … no “Real Equity” backing the Loan.
    They are going back to the … Old Rules … I would say…
    Ran into this problem many years ago… for different reasons.
    To do with how B.C. Assessments” “works its assessment estimates”
    Try a Credit Union.. Rules are more free… They consider your “Equity”.. if you work them…

    • Real Estate Tsunami

      It’s true the Credit Unions are more accommodating.VanCity comes to mind.
      Kind of counter intuitive, I would think.

  3. Real Estate Tsunami

    “eminently mortgagable”
    That’s why I like this blog.
    Gems like this you just don’t get anywhere else.

  4. For laughs I perused the online print version of New Condo Guide.

    The Luxor (Yes, Scott Road and 64th is very reminiscent of Egypt and/or Vegas) has $10 000 off offer and “own from 575/month” See sales associate for details.

    Ascend (Cloverdale) will give you &10 000 to start off your deposit, and subsidise your mortgage payment so you only pay $671.

    Verve (Whalley) will “help you with your deposit”, again shy on details.

    Athenry Gate (Langley) has “extra low condo fees for 4 years”.

    Cornerstone North, which may be “the best selling development in Langley”, but still they need incentives like one beds from &491/mo, 1+den $549, 2 bed $655.

    Headwaters has a very non-specific “Spring blowout!” whatever that means, Morgan Crossing is more direct with up to $108K off certain units. And that is a 2 bed that started at only $419 900, so a pretty significant %25 cut.

    Perhaps the one to make a bull’s bowels loosen the most is Elliot Street, with an offer in really big print to pay your mortgage in it’s entirety for two full years. Yes, we have no teaser rate mortgages in Canada!

    In addition too many $10 000 first home buyers bonus offers to list.

    • DudeWhere'sMyVan?

      I live in this approximate corner of the lower mainland and drive by some of these on developments on a regular basis. In the few years I’ve lived out here I’ve watched acres of pre-existing forests get razed to the ground, and these osb beaver-puke beauties get slapped up almost overnight, only to languish, partly (maybe totally-am merely guessing by the constant advertising for unsold units)? on the market for a very long time. The buildings in particularly undesirable neighbourhoods, like the Luxor, (which is snuggled up right next to a gas station amongst other wonderful “amenities”, and on the corner of 2 glorified highways, btw), well, I wish the developers Good Luck unloading that inventory even with their current generous “discounts”.

      I’ve watched the massive re-development along 60th Ave. progress as well. 1000’s of new townhomes & condos going in, the majority are within walking distance to… nada! No parks, shopping, schools, etc. Maybe a bus stop, if you’re lucky. Most of these townhomes have secondary basement suites (legal and otherwise), the majority have legal coach house suites, some have both. If you bought in one of these developments, you and your entire household and tenant(s)would need a vehicle to be able to get anywhere, and the existing streets in these developments are absolutely overflowing with vehicles already, with more new units completing every day. Great OCP Surrey!

      That said, there are a few pockets with very little product on the market, and where Sold signs are following For Sale signs quickly, the market for these areas seems weirdly hot right now. These are the areas of the older re-developments, and they are all actually within walking distance to lots of amenities, in well-planned walkable, well-landscaped areas with parks & greenbelts left intact. (More of a Van neighbourhood vibe). This kind of intelligent development & densification I completely understand, but to see acres of the badly-located, poorly-built, rushed-to-market, shrinking-sqare-footage crap housing all I see is a high potential for creating ghetto’s of tomorrow, and there are great swaths of this type of building right across Surrey and into Langley. The development model appears to be Housing First! …and then maybe later we’ll squeeze in a few amenities. I can’t imagine who will be buying all this inventory up at today’s, or even tomorrow’s prices? This is one overbuilt market.

    • Real Estate Tsunami

      Realtors wil do anything to avoid lowering the price, because lower prices will beget lower prices.
      They rather throw in a new car than lower the price.

      • [MotorAuthority] – Luxury condo builder gives away free Lamborghini with each purchase

        …”Miami is home to its fair share of automotive exotica that often seems to litter the streets, but even then you wouldn’t expect all the occupants of a 28-unit condo to be driving a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder would you?

        Well you would now, considering that a Miami-based luxury condo builder is trying to sweeten the deal on its beachfront condos by throwing in a free Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder for every buyer.

        The developer is trying to raise publicity for the Miami beach development ‘South of Fifth’. By teaming up with Lamborghini Miami, both brands are attempting to capture the imaginations of what they call a “luxury connoisseur”.

        The tactic is an ambitious one considering the state of the automotive market, as well as the housing market, but the appeal of the homes as well as the sweetener of the Lamborghini may be enough to get folks to dish out the $6.5 million asking price for a four bedroom unit.”…


        [NoteToEd: Take special note of the date and market in that piece… Remember what happened next? TeeHee!]

      • Ralph Cramdown

        Well, maybe you can get a mortgage/car loan at 5th and Collins?
        There’s irony in this somehow, I feel.

    • In other news CondoPromotionalOffers, Bob Rennie is rumoured to have recently completed a BulkPurchase of ScintillatingTeutonicIron guaranteed to move those ‘few’ remaining OV units…

      [NoteToEd: Stop chortling! They had a “LeedsPlatinum” certification, too. ]

      • Real Estate Tsunami

        Believe it or not, but the Trabants were the Mercedes of the Iron Curtain Countries.
        Made in East Germany, that’s as close a they got to the real thing.

      • pffft!!!! My personal favourites… Please don’t tell anyone. TeeHee!!!!

      • Yikes! Cut n’ paste failure! IllustriousEd? You finished that Magarita yet?

      • Ralph Cramdown

        Leeds Platinum? I think NOT. East German gas pumps sold mixed gas at 50:1 (for the newer models) and 33:1 (for the older ones). Anyone referring to one as ‘iron’ has NOT rapped the fender of one. They were NOT the Mercedes of the East Bloc; that was reserved for the Wartburg, whose waiting list was typically two-three years longer, I was told. And the gearshift, a through-the-dash umbrella handle affair, was positively hinky.

      • Well… My gratuitous Facetiousness&Sarc aside, RC… and as you’ve UppedTheAnte….

        Have you driven a Zil lately?…

  5. Burbs Boy doesn’t say if the land is for residential or commercial use. I’ll assume it’s for residential. Most lenders will steer clear of lending on raw land. They always have. Especially, if you don’t have immediate plans for building. For especially good clients (with stellar track records), the big lenders will sometimes lend up to 50% of the appraised value. But, it’s fairly rare and like I said, you have to be a really good client. Clearly, if he’s gone to 7 institutions, he’s not a great client for any of them.

    So, nothings changed. The restrictions on raw land have always been tough. Don’t read too much into this.

  6. This is OSFI requiring income-loan-utility matching.

    What risk management will care about is ensuring the investment has direct supporting cash flows.

    Think of it like this: you’re in front of O’Leary in Dragon’s Den and you’re pitching your business idea but say that you’re generating revenue by your day job as a plumber. The direct business case based on revenues doesn’t make sense. This isn’t totally true in the case of the land, since it CAN be made somewhat productive, but there’s “can” and then there’s “can”. This particular deal is the former.

  7. Real Estate Tsunami

    What if he cooks the raw land? 🙂
    Or if he intends to farm on it?

  8. RBC raised rates today. I’m sure other banks will follow suit. The unraveling begins…

  9. Sure… So we’ve got BikeLanes & UrbanChickens.

    Bevertheless… somehow, I just don’t think London’s sweating its WorldClass status…

    [UK Independent] – London’s cyclists bare all for World Naked Bike Ride event

    …”Hundreds of bare-bottomed cyclists took to the streets of London today for the World Naked Bike Ride event…

    …Today’s bike ride in the capital quite literally stopped traffic. Transport for London tweeted that buses in the city centre are subject to delays this afternoon, advising passengers to allow extra time for their journey.

    Lanes were restricted on Marble Arch and Park Lane “due to large numbers of spectators observing the start of the World Naked Bike Ride event”….


  10. GuessWho, DearReaders…

    …”We have rammed through our sacred bike lanes, community gardens and farmers markets. We have forced homeowners to compost almost everything. We are planting fruit trees across the city, uncovering creeks and streams, and replacing our city’s paved back alleys with planted and permeable country lanes. Upon these lanes we have encouraged the development of tiny but environmentally beneficial living spaces and we have somehow managed to make people excited about living in a 400-square-foot suite atop a garage.

    Citizens can now raise chickens in their backyards, and pull fresh fish from the waters of Hastings Park. We are literally teaching our children to fish.

    Our city is now adorned with decorative guerrilla gardens and yarn-bombings of all colours and patterns.

    But all of this my friends, righteous though it may be, is not enough.” – Mayor Gregor Robertson [Friday, to the “Visionistas”]

    [NoteToEd: Well, there’s no denying he got the last part right, is there?]

  11. He’s Merciless, that EvilRoboRedaktor!

    Much like the Terrifying&Pityless ProtoRealtors ‘o OgoPogo.

    Or maybe he’s just a “Visionista”?

    M’aider! M’aider!

    • During the RoboRedaktor ‘intermission’… here’s something else guaranteed to amuse [well, probably not]….

      “If the PM secures a deal with all G8 countries committing to public registries, it will be transformative… It would be the biggest assault on tax havens, corruption and money laundering in recent history.” – Sol Oyuela, ChristianAid Spokesperson

      [UK Guardian] – David Cameron faces battle at G8 over anti-corruption deal for firms: With fierce opposition from some members of economic summit, getting an agreement to stop tax evasion is now looking unlikely

      …”PM David Cameron’s hopes of securing at the G8 summit next week a major anti-corruption agreement that would force companies to reveal who really owns them is hanging by a thread, amid fierce opposition from both the Russian and Canadian governments, as well as from many members of the US Congress.

      Companies that hide their real owners in inscrutable, anonymous trusts and shell companies in tax havens are responsible for moving hundreds of billions of pounds a year around the world, much of which is plundered from developing countries. Often the trusts are used for tax evasion, to pay kickbacks to corrupt officials, to facilitate organised crime and to fund international terrorism. In 2011, the World Bank analysed 213 grand corruption cases over the past 20 years. In 150, a trust or shell company was used. Many of the trusts used to disguise ownership are based in British overseas territories, such as the Cayman Islands or the British Virgin Islands.”


      [NoteToEd: My what lovely company we’re keeping these days. Small wonder those CoalHarbour PentHouses are ‘flying off the shelf’. PS – Just between the two of us, Ed – it’s Trillions, not hundreds of billions.]

      • Presented here [and without comment] for the sake of ArchivalAesthetics…

        [CBC] – Secret files reveal more Canadians using offshore tax havens

        …”The president of the West Edmonton Mall. A prominent Ottawa philanthropist. A notorious fraudster. A pioneer of internet webcasting.

        They are just a handful of the hundreds of Canadians named in the recent massive leak of records from offshore tax havens.

        The 2.5 million files include financial and personal details on more than 550 Canadian taxpayers linked to companies and trusts based in the Caribbean and South Pacific.

        Some of these individuals come from a few of the country’s wealthiest families. Others fleeced their way to fortune.”…


  12. Real Estate Tsunami

    Nem, thanks for the article.
    Canada and Russia in bed together.
    Trillions of dollars being plundered from developing countries.
    New form of Imperialism.

    • My pleasure!… by the way, do you know where your Goats&Llamas are?

      “My mom… was bringing her groceries in, and the bear met her at the back door.” – Surrey Resident Gary Hoffman.

      [CBC] – Rampaging Bear Devours Goat, Snacks on Llama, Eyes Up Mom for Dessert: Surrey Realtors form VigilantePosse

      …”Conservation officers are hunting for an injured black bear in Surrey, B.C., after it attacked a llama and killed a goat on separate properties.

      “I was trying keep the bear away from the llama and the bear didn’t want to take no for an answer,” said Jim Clark, who raises llamas on his acreage.”…


      [NoteToEd: A Bear that, “won’t take no for answer.”… Yikes! Small wonder the SurreyRealtors are terrifed.]

  13. Real Estate Tsunami

    Any incidents of bears attacking bulls in Surrey?

  14. Headline: “Bovine Panic in Slurrey as injured Bruin Runs Wild!!”

  15. [NoteToEd: Jackson’s looking pretty ‘chiseled’ these days. Aren’t we all, though? Just for fun, Natch. OK, and the DeeperPurpose. As always. SignMe: A SuccessfulWhistleBlower. The OtherOneWhoGotAway. Intact.]

  16. ack! … lulu!

    • Sssshhhhh! OhMy!… Has anyone ever told you that your ‘UnintentionallySheer’ YogaPants are rather fetching, RJ! Don’t worry, simply everyone who’s anyone in LA does it too. Trust me on this. Really!

      [NoteToEd: Are owners of MEC’s CheaperStretchyPants allowed to DownWardDog on VREAA? Just wondering. One day I really must tell you about the ‘GeographicallyChallenged’ aerobics instructoress. But if I did that, I’d first have to tell you about the SkitziLano CivicPoliticoWannaBe who positively detests being referred to as RollerGirl. Just between the two of us, Ed – I think she was much happier during her SantaMonicaDaze.]

  17. I like how she told everyone on the planet why she doesn’t buy lululemon.

    Rumour has it that the money rolling into YogaShip1 in Vancouver was a bit on the frothy side. Some of it even trickled down into westside properties. Question, was the money “hot”?

    • Well, Dr. J… There’s “Hot”… and there’s “Smokin’Hot”.

    • QuattroFormaggi, BatMan!… We knew things were tough in LuLuTown… but we didn’t know things were this bad [cue BlessedArtThe….].

      [CBC] – B.C. man charged in alleged cheese-smuggling scheme: Contraband cheese ring targeting pizzerias broken up in Ontario in 2012

      …”In court documents, the Canada Border Services Agency alleges Manuel De Oliveira either under declared, or failed to declare, quantities on 29 separate cheese shipments. According to a search warrant, the investigation began in 2008 when a border agent with a sharp nose detected something was off in a shipment of grapes and grape juice.

      A closer examination turned up three pallets, wrapped in black plastic, that were loaded with 2,200 kilograms of cheese in 235 boxes. The shipment was allegedly bound for Burnaby’s Beira Mar Importers, which is owned by De Oliveira. A year later, the CBSA intercepted a shipment of two varieties of Portuguese cheese — a shipment that appeared to have been arranged to evade duty charges of $67,000.

      Under federal regulations, cheese importers are issued quotas that see cheese taxed at about $0.03 per kilogram, but anything over the quota is slapped with a 245.5 per cent tariff.”…


      [NoteToEd: Does this mean that high school administrators will be cracking down on students with CheesyLockers?]

  18. some things haven’t changed in >400 ks … what’s up with that?

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