“Our landlords are booting us out. My wife has been onside until now, but with the threat of homelessness she’s wavering. I feel that buying now is akin to climbing out of the lifeboat and back onto the Titanic.”

“Our landlords are booting us out of the house we’ve been in for 5 years. (She’s divorcing him and booted him out, and we’re next down the eviction chain as he’s moving in when our lease expires in a few months.) So we’re desperately looking for rentals in the same neighbourhood (Cambie) due to schools and work. Or we’ll buy somewhere like North Van and uproot everyone but only once.
After being around these boards for 5+ years I feel that buying now is akin to climbing out of the lifeboat and back onto the Titanic. The wife has been onside until now, but with the threat of homelessness she’s wavering. So I’m trying to decide how big the potential downsides are. Pay $3k in rent for 1-2 years then buy (and deal with 2 moves) or bite the bullet and buy now and pay that much for the mortgage (until rates go up). The potential savings by renting and delaying a purchase is what I’m trying to estimate.”

/dev/null at VCI 22 Jan 2013 11:21am

“Sorry to hear that. Here is my view. We (a family with 2 kids) are renting half-a-duplex in Burnaby for $2000/month for about 5 years. Good area, decent schools, commute is ok. The landlord is a nice person, but has (and always had) thoughts about splitting the place into two units and rent them for $1500+$800 (this trick worked for a while for the neighbour landlord, until last year when they have started having problems with finding good tenants for the downstairs unit). I am tracking the rental pool in the area pretty closely and found that a lot of 5bdr/SFH in the $2300-$2500/month range entered the market last year (starting late summer I would say, most of them accidental landlords). Places like ours are steady in the $1800-$2100 range for the last 5 years, and the influx of of those 2300-2500 homes definitely helps keep those prices from growing.
Last fall, I had a number of conversations with my landlords and gave them the full picture, mentioning that we would have no problem finding something decent in the very same area. Of course, we were perfect tenants all these years. Apparently, it worked out, everybody seems to be happy now.
Back to your situation. First, I think buying something just because “we have to move out of here anyways” is a plain bad idea. Do the math and then decide. Second, I personally wouldn’t mind renting for another few years in your situation, even if it comes at a bit higher price comparing to the deal you have now. Rental pool in our (yours and mine) sector is improving, it’s renter’s market.
Yes, I know moving is painful. I know your wife wants a nest (mine too). Yes, – peer/parent pressure, accidental landlord risks etc. But the risk of losing money by buying something is just way too high these days. My $0.02.”

C.Junta at VCI 22 Jan 2013 12:51pm

Great analogy from /dev/null.
Whether you’re on the Titanic or in a lifeboat, the speculative mania is at the very least time-consuming, inconvenient, anxiety-provoking, and distracting.
– vreaa

56 responses to ““Our landlords are booting us out. My wife has been onside until now, but with the threat of homelessness she’s wavering. I feel that buying now is akin to climbing out of the lifeboat and back onto the Titanic.”

  1. Sir, I have done two mid size developments and hold a realtor’s license just to get the real data. I also watch global and local stats like a hawk. I will tell you without question that buying now will be a decision you will live to regret deeply.

    Downside? Easily 25-50% from here.

    • My initial reaction to this post from /dev/nul is “how foolish are you, man”?

      The guy admits he has been around bear blogs for 5 years and still does not have enough synapses firing to have allowed any of it to sink in. He actually starts waffling at the first sign of minor distress over the fact his landlord requires the rental house back and actually suggests the lease temination will lead to “homelessness”.

      Apparently he missed the part where we all learned we are in the early stages of the biggest demographic shift this country has ever been through.

      That there will be millions of Boomers retiring and downsizing.

      That the best minds in the business of statistical analysis related to real estate and aging can tell us unequivocally that even with no bubble whatsoever we are still looking at many years of steadily declining prices.

      So the guy missed all that and still cannot figure out if it is a better decision to rent or buy when it is well understood we are at the peak of one of the biggest housing bubbles on earth.

      How stunned is this duck?

  2. 4SlicesofCheese

    After traveling to asia for a month, had a great time on 10 dollars a day, stayed at swanky W hotels. I met people who make in a month what we do in a day, and I realize there is more to life than becoming a slave to own a home in this supposed best place on earth.

    Sometimes everyone needs a reminder that, 1, the world is a huge place and there are opportunities and happiness everywhere, you just need to grasp it, and 2 how distorted the views are within a bubble country.

    There’s more to life than shopping at metrotown and living in a specific neighborhood.

    Get out there!

    • I’ve been ‘out there’ and now I’m back but am looking forward to leaving again.

      One of the best parts about Vancouver is leaving it…and then coming back. I should have returned after the bubble burst !

  3. Moving sucks, but it can be quantified. There are companies who will find you a new place to live, and others who will come into your house, pack up everything, move it to the new house and unpack it. Don’t think about the rash of moving, find out the dollar value and make a financial decision. If you genuinely believe that real estate prices will return to the long term trend line over the next 5 years then you will probably find that you can pay someone to move you 5 times and still be ahead of the depreciation on the asset you want to nest in.

  4. There should be quite a few rentals in Cambie, given that speculators snapped up lots of SFH hoping to cash in on a Canada Line development bonanza that hasn’t materialized.

  5. threat of homelessness

    WTF? The choice is buy or be homeless?

    Pay $3k in rent for 1-2 years then buy (and deal with 2 moves) or bite the bullet and buy now and pay that much for the mortgage (until rates go up).

    Good luck finding an equivalent property in the same area with monthly mortgage equivalent to rent.

  6. Bull! Bull! Bull!

    That’s a sad story. Your life would have been better if you bought 5 years ago. You would have a stable home, bought at a cheaper price, and 5 years worth of equity.

    It’s too bad you fell under the influence of the bear bloggers.

    vreaa, be sure to delete this post. We wouldn’t want the sheeple bears to see the other side of the coin.

    • Real Estate Tsunami

      Post still up.

    • According to REBGV Composite Index for the LM they would have been 4.1% up if they’d bought 5 years ago. Think about that Bull….a whole, whopping 4.1%. After inflation is factored in they’d lost money. Even if you narrow it down to GV (because it’s different here) they’d still only be 6.2% ahead.

      I know you have an axe to grind (and I’m guessing a commission to protect) but you could at least try to be a bit smart about the disinformation you spew.

      • You do not even need to factor in inflation for them to loose money – cumulative cost of owning – mortgage interest, property taxes and house maintenance plus a loss of interest if the downpayment was invested – would make buying a home 5 years ago a negative investment already.
        Vreaa – please do not delete that triple Bull post, as it provides a very welcoming opportunity to oppose him with the facts.
        And speaking about now (versus 5 years ago) – even if we won’t mention the danger of the bubble bursting that can deflate the home equity fast, the homes are now loosing their value at an annual rate of at least 1 % plus all of the above mentioned cost of owning.

  7. I would encourage you to look into Co-op living for a while.
    We owned our apartment, sold in 2009 and started renting.
    Rented a decent TH in a good area in BBY for 1.5 years, did our best to be ideal tenants, even did repairs and charged the landlord for materials only. Anyways, after 1.5 years he still wanted to increase our rent and increase it by a lot. When I refused and nicely told him that such an increase would be illegal he changed horses and told me that we must move out because he is moving back in. Of course he did not intend to move back in but I did not want to fight in courts with him and decided to move.
    Moving of course can be a huge hassle, and I decided to try and find a stable place where we can rent for as long as it takes for this bubble to burst. I used to think (as most people do) that Co-ops were for low income people only. Is is NOT the case. There are different types of Co-ops and some of them are very nice places and actually you must prove that you have a fairly decent income to qualify, there is no subsidy available.
    These places are however still much cheaper than rentals and you have total security, nobody is kicking you out. We have been here for almost two years and are loving it. Great building, great people. Yes, you do have to contribute 3-4 hours / household per month, two of which is usually participation in the committee’s meeting that you sign up for. But this way you get to know your neighbors and feel like you belong to a community. I feel that I got to know all the people much better in the Co-op in two years than I knew my neighbors in the building where I had owned my place for almost 10 years.
    We have peace of mind, my wife loves it, she does feel that we have our ‘nest’ and we stopped thinking that you must own a place to raise your kids. The building is great, people are great, we have total security, no landlord to boot us out for any reason … what else does a child need?

    • Naked Official #9000

      Disloyal cadre!

      Every child needs granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, a wok kitchen and an orange Maserati.

      Anything less is disharmonious splittism, and the Dalai Lama is behind your views.

    • 100% agree. We moved to a co-op two years ago and very happy with the choice. Good co-ops typically has longer wait times but hey the applicaiton fee is cheap (typically $20 – $50). Find a few that suites you and drop an application at each place. Use the links below.
      All the best!

      • We actually got into a Co-op within two month. We agreed with the previous landlord (after I told him that I’m familiar with the tenancy act and I knew he was going to rent it out again … ) on a 3 month period for moving out and I wasn’t sure if it was going to be enough to find a decent place but we actually got 3 interviews at Co-ops and two offers within 2 month. Sometimes it takes longer, it depends on how lucky you are, but I handed in about 15 applications (only had to pay an application fee for two of them) and got a call with an offer from 8 of them total within a year. Of course we accepted an offer after two month so I didn’t check the units offered in the other ones but many Co-ops offer very decent accommodations at a good price. Not all of them are great, you have to drive around, look at the buildings, talk to people but it is totally worth the effort in the end. Good luck.

      • Coops end up getting a lot of unsuitable applicants and though they claim to have a long waitlist, many will, if they think you’re a good fit, jump you up the queue.

        That stated, most of the time coops are a nice option but if you get a useless neighbour it can be hell.

  8. homelessindunbar

    Dev – I completely sympathize with your position. We are in a similar spot as our lease is up at the end of April and our landlord is uncertain whether he will renew (might put the place on the market instead). We have moved on average every two years around the Westside (Dunbar/ Kerrisdale area). The last time we move (May 2011), the house we were renting was sold in 10 days (to off shore investors) and knocked down about a month after we moved out (despite it being a lovely renovated character home). Our situation is a little more complicated this time as we have school catchment issues to deal with – our child is in french immersion and it appears our spot will be lost if we leave the catchment (the school administration is being a little cagey about the whole thing but that’s the general message).

    I look for rentals daily but it is almost impossible to find a decent long-term rental. I’ve come across many homes for rent owned by investors/developers who will rent the home for a year but no guarantee after that. It is also clear that they will not maintain the house while you live there – its a tear down in their eyes (even if they purchased it for $2.3M).

    We are also investigating the option of buying a house. We went to a number of open houses this weekend. Despite talk of the real estate market slowing down, many of the open houses were very busy especially in the Dunbar area. There appears to be a lot of interest in homes in the $1.5 – $1.6M (and they are selling quickly per the realtors).

    If there is a bubble, it can’t explode soon enough in my opinion. However, I’m losing faith in this unraveling anytime soon. In the meantime, despite being well paid professionals (with multiple degrees), we move around like gypsies.

    • Real Estate Tsunami

      “and they are selling quickly per the realtors”.
      You better hurry, or you will be “priced out forever”.

      • homelessindunbar

        The point of my post was to illustrate that moving around gets more complicated with children (as Dev points out) and that finding decent rentals on the Westside is becoming trickier. We are actually not priced out, we are choosing not to participate. Despite hoping for prices to fall (and they have to a degree), from my observation and knowledge of the market, (at least in Dunbar) houses are still selling. And no, I’m not a realtor. Not a bull.

      • Naked Official #9000

        Loyal cadre, take my advice and increase your offer to $1,888,888.88 – it works for my friends and I.

        Also, perhaps you should move your yuppie asses to the east side – lots of lovely garden suites available.

      • Naked Official #9000

        “If” there is a bubble – who are you working for? Wu mao for you

    • Your tale is certainly a compelling case against allowing offshore money to run roughshod over your local housing market.

      • Naked Official #9000

        Lies and disharmony – you will be purged! You will be excommunicated from the party – cast out to Cadre Rennie’s hell that is Coverdale.

    • Agree the selection (or lack thereof) is frustrating. You sound engaged, what would you suggest be done to improve things?

      • homelessindunbar

        Off the top of my head:
        1. Remove catchment barriers or at least allow a child to stay in the school even if their family moves out of catchment. This will provide some stability for the children (even if they are moving every year).
        2. Require developers to re-cycle (say 60%) of any house they tear down (to reduce land fill and the general waste that goes on).
        3. I would like some way to stop houses from sitting empty. I’m quite sure the one we used to live in in Dunbar (the one that was torn down and rebuilt) is sitting empty. Apply a surtax (though not sure how you would enforce this).
        4. Revise principle residence rules whereas you need to live/own a house for say 5 years before you can claim a PR exemption. This would put a halt to the flipping and return houses to what they are suppose to be – places to live in.

  9. Real Estate Tsunami

    Depressing posts, lately.
    Must be the lousy weather.
    Cheer up, it’s liquid sunshine!

  10. Co-ops have a long waiting list which can take years to get in.My girlfriend lived in one in Burnaby for many years and we could feel the neighbors kids running up the stairs shaking the wall,and moving the hanging pictures.We could also hear them snoring in the bedroom.The materials used for co-ops are the cheapest available.
    Just because you have to move doesn’t mean you have to rush and buy.You can even rent an apartment or townhouse for a while as well as a storage locker for excess junk.I am looking to upgrade to a larger space but am willing to wait it out in my condo.
    Think about it,you can get a mortgage for under 3% and yet the market is tumbling.If you want a true “feel” for the market go to your bank manager and ask them how the mortgage business is right now.Don’t listen to the media or realtors.The media make their money from advertising dollars from the real estate industry,realtors want you to buy now for the commission.

  11. The general perception of people is indeed that waiting lists are so long for Co-ops that it is impossible to get in. As I mentioned in my post above that was not our experience, and I have since talked to a couple other people excepted into our Co-op and also know 2 other families that got a place in a different Co-op, none of us waited more than 4 month. We actually got an offer from one Co-op we applied to within 2 weeks. We later decided not to take that one as something better came up within the 3 month that we had to find a place. Yes, it is a case of lucky timing sometimes but generally it takes less time than people think. As far as materials being used, I guess that totally depends on the Co-op, members are the one making decisions, unless it is a low income, subsidized Co-op where I believe that the decision is not the owners’ … that’s a different story altogether, different type of Co-ops. I can tell you that in our Co-op all the renovations done since we moved in were done using great quality materials with very long warranties in place for the workmanship and materials as well. There are great Co-ops out there, yes you need to check them out, not all of them are the same but as I said we are extremely happy with our choice and won’t even think about moving until prices come back to long-term trendlines and owning becomes cheaper than renting.

  12. I have no question in my mind that you can find the same or BETTER accommodations as before. There’s a lot out on the market. As a renter myself, it is WAY better to deal with professional management company than amateur landlords.
    Moving is not a big deal if you take your time and pay someone to do the move. It gives you a chance to declutter and get rid of stuff. And that’s never a bad idea.
    Think of it as short term pain for long term gain.
    Try padmapper.com

  13. Thanks all (well, most) for the comments. If we had bought 5 years ago I wouldn’t now have my PhD or the well-paying job I love, so it was the best decision I ever made to continue renting. We’ve been in a small SFH (yard, garage, basement etc.) a few blocks from work, school, daycare etc. for 6 years, paying $2400/month, so we’re admittedly spoiled.

    Finding another house in our school catchment is unlikely, and something close by that we can commute from is about $3000-$3500/month. We’re reluctant to bounce the kids around to different schools, which is why we’re suddenly eager to “settle” somewhere. Something in North Van would be ~$850k, so conservatively a $650k mortgage at 5% would cost me about $3500/month I think.

    I don’t doubt prices will drop. I’m just not sure about the timelines, and I’m trying my best to put a price on all the life disruptions. I think we’ll continue to rent and I’m trying to get my landlord to reconsider moving in. Thanks all.

    • Yes Dev…do it for the kids. (I am sure they will thank you later on).

      Seriously though…I strongly suggest you do a review of average sales prices in North Van before jumping into anything at 850k. It might just enlighten you as to how overpriced the area has become in twenty or so years. A reversion to the mean will wipe you out for life and prove that your PHD was a complete waste of time and effort.

      A smart guy like you should be able to do a little research and dig up some data.

      • Real Estate Tsunami

        Shows again that a simple Farmer can have more smarts than a PHD. 🙂

      • Cyril Tourneur

        Ditto RET.

      • I strongly suggest you do a review of average sales prices in North Van

        Which was actually the question within my original post – clarification on the historical prices in NV. I thought that some of the people with smarts could perhaps help me out. VREAA was very kind to quote my post, but it wasn’t everything I wrote.

      • Naked Official #9000

        One of the worst stereotypes of all professions is that farmers are simple or stupid or not as intelligent as other professions.

        Just look at how our “welding mask while driving wearing” friends from overseas view working outdoors in the sunshine – that’s peasant work, right?

      • Dev, I think my response to you developed out of complete surprise that a highly educated person would even consider the folly of buying into a market that has shown clear signs of topping.

        The evidence against purchasing now is overwhelming and it is difficult for me to square away the idea that a well informed person like yourself can even come within considering that buying is safe or sensible

        That is to say that I have expressed dissapointment that the recurrent message here carries so little weight versus the desire of your wife (whose opinion you seem to value over common sense) to make the leap into financial slavery simply due to the termination of your lease.

        It just proves the herd instinct for nesting is stronger than logic itself.

        All I can suggest is you take a long hard look at what you are doing before you put any money down. Show your wife the numbers. The downside is overwhelmingly against buyers now and I believe you are about to make the single biggest financial mistake of your life.

        You might not like that message but unless your income is assured in the top 2 or 3 percent of income earners in the city you will be better off taking some counsel from an expert in the field of investing and sleeping on the idea for at least the next 5 years.

        Renting is simply the better choice until the trouble blows over.

    • homelessindunbar

      Good luck dev/null….hope it all works out.

  14. Dev, with respect: run some hypotheticals. Do a best case, a worst case, and a likely case.

    Here’s a likely case, which also happens to be the worst case: to protect yourself against “homelessness,” you buy a shack for $850,000 in 2013 and by 2016 you have lost $400,000 worth of equity. Your down payment (maybe it was $50,000 or maybe it was a cool quarter mil?) is gone and you will have to pay hundreds of thousands to work your way *up* to being penniless.

    Yes, you can still make the payments so you are keeping the bailiffs at bay. Your interest rate is now 4% (=carrying costs up 1/3) and climbing: you predict that your carrying costs will have risen by 75% by the time your 5-year mortgage is up for renewal.

    Oh, and speaking of renewal: do banks renew $500,000 mortgages on $450,000 properties? This is the type of question you are now asking yourself at 2 in the morning.

    Puts a whole new spin on the “threat of homelessness” that you feel you are *currently* facing.

    Yes, your current situation carries an emotional burden. Changing housing, under any circumstances, is traumatic. But you may be overlooking the *assets* that you are considering trading for this so-called “security”. You currently have:

    -No debt or only good debt (i.e. student loans)
    -1+ years living expenses in the bank in cash (your down payment)
    -All investment risk is *unleveraged*. The maximum that your current investments can lose is 100%.
    -You are flexible if your employment status changes (Ph.D’s sometimes have to go where the work is)

    As a Sheriff moves your childrens’ toys out onto the lawn of your foreclosed house, and your Dad pulls up in a Uhaul, you will look back fondly on the days when you had so many things going for you. And no, I am not exaggerating.

  15. We got booted our of our house in Cambie area, although we were only in it for 1 year because the previous owner lied through his teeth and the house transferred to a development company a few months ago. We just rented another house in the area that was renovated 2 years ago for $2200. In the last 6 months, we have seen several houses in the area for $2500, and in south Cambie they are cheaper.

    As RE prices continue to fall, rents will start falling. There are a ton of luxury houses for renting, but a ballooned supply of luxury houses does not increase the amount of people who can pay luxury rent.

  16. I don’t see much changing in rents for the foreseeable future. Nothing will change until a protectionist government is voted in to stop mass immigration. Until then, they’ll just keep flooding Van and create more inequality by dividing the middle class.

    The yuan is appreciating; that means rent prices in Van are getting cheaper for Chinese immigrants.

  17. Real Estate Tsunami

    Completely agree with you, but no Government will mess with ethnic vote.

    • I think immigrants are very confused and mislead with regards to moving to Canada. Go translate some pages and you’ll see how immigration lawyers are selling Canada as ‘the promised land,’ while our economy is deteriorating.

      It’s a bad policy when immigrants are being used to help pay government debt. Historically, it all ends badly at some point.

      • Naked Official #9000

        This is all racist disharmony. Duly noted in your file, watchdog – do not obstruct the goals of the party – including emigration of 300million to Africa – 20 million or so should do it for Canada.

  18. The Poster Formerly Known As Anonymous

    Leaving aside the references to specific nationalities or races, as these are numerous and varied, immigration into the region is simply a numbers game. How many can be fed locally? How many can be gainfully employed in resource extraction, agriculture, services or manufacturing? There are only so many more needed to serve fries and change the boomers’ bedpans.

    Vancouver is an airship with the rope ladders still hanging down to the ground. Though I and many of my friends and acquaintances may have been among the latest to climb up, it doesn’t stop me from seeing that at some point, the rope ladders will have to be pulled up before the whole ship sinks back down with the weight. No one will stop trying to climb the ladders. It will end really, really badly if we don’t recognize that those who are on board already count as much as those yet to get on board.

    Someone recently complained about the pace of change, and said they wished the government would “give us a generation” to adjust before resuming the pace of immigration. It doesn’t take a genius to see that overcrowding causes quarrels, and overcrowding with communication barriers is even more likely to cause quarrels. Under economic strain, things will be even more likely to end in quarrels. I honestly fail to see the benefits in increasing an expansionary policy – I defy anyone to argue that further benefits will yield from increased density through population growth.

    Regarding coops: I have an Eritrean friend who lives in a coop run by a cartel of East Europeans from a certain “former” country. They use the coop to line their pockets by charging families from their homeland bribes to jump to the head of the line, giving themselves the best units, giving painting and renovation contracts to friends in return for kickbacks, renovating their own units lavishly, and numerous other shady and illegal activities that almost caused their right to self-govern to be taken away by BC housing and to have an external manager forcefully appointed.

    (Now, I am sure that Canadians born here are capable of such activities, and this is not intended to be a “culturalist” rant. It is merely an example of how people from diverse cultural and linguistic backgrounds stick together and act in ways that provide mutual benefit in a tough and competitive environment. Studies have shown that the countries with greatest cultural variety have the highest rates of corruption and lowest levels of social capital, precisely because groups will end up sticking together in an “us vs them” mentality and a polarization of society ensues. Sorry, I can’t dig up references right now.)

    so… back to coops. Just be careful that you don’t end up in the one my friend lives in; it sounds appalling. Good thing he is moving out of the country to a job that pays 3 times as much as the professional one he lost here in 2010.

    And before some fucker pulls up the racist canard, read merriam websters and think long and hard about what the word actually means. Find a new word if you take exception to anything i have said, because none of it is racist. It isn’t even nationalist, cuz I could leave tomorrow and not give a shit about Canada. It’s just common bloody sense.

    For those too lazy to google:

    “: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race ”

    Sorry V, your sterling blog is really not the platform for this discourse, but it keeps coming up time and again as an elephant in the room since population growth is so intimately linked with housing and rental prices.

    • “population growth is so intimately linked with housing and rental prices”

      Is it?

      • The Poster Formerly Known As Anonymous

        Isn’t it? I learned that from you!!! Over the past two and a half years that I have been reading, you often cited net interprovincial migration as well as international immigration as factors influencing prices, along with housing starts and completions, etc.

        Or have I misunderstood all your research? Perhaps it is changes in rate, rather than overall growth rate that cause shifts in the equilibrium?

      • The rate of immigration growth to BC has been falling for decades, and population growth in Vancouver has averaged about 1% annually. Yet in the past then years there has been a massive run up in prices. It’s cheap credit and speculative fever that have driven prices.

    • I defy anyone to argue that further benefits will yield from increased density through population growth.

      But living in 250 sq.ft. condos is eco-friendly according to the UN's Agenda 21. If residents don't agree, they'll find people who will.

    • Why aren’t you willing to believe this is a bubble? Like some, you seem to think that the market is simply reacting rationally to the vast hordes of immigrants. If only we kept them out, Vancouver would be affordable and no one would have to build 250 square foot condos for the down-trodden locals.

      Maybe. But I see burst bubbles around the world caused by locals who borrowed more than they could afford and bid up houses accordingly, to the cheers of the brokers and bankers getting rich skimming their cut.
      People who think borrowed money is free and bankers getting rich feeding the delusion caused house prices to go up everywhere in the world, including Vancouver.

      • The Poster Formerly Known As Anonymous

        Perhaps you misunderstand. I know this is a bubble in the short run. Local incomes don’t justify the prices. In the longer term, the population growth will lend the city the same density as other world class cities around the world such as London, New Delhi, Beijing, Mexico City, etc. until the differential in standard of living:cost of living ratio has been eliminated and net migration in or out = 0. We will be world class, yes. But the standard of living will be shared out over a vastly larger population, leading to lowered standard for all, and risks emanating from natural or other catastrophes will be amplified.

        in fact, the current bubble is a brake on immigration. After the crash, watch the population rise faster.

        (I realize the risks in extrapolation, but that is where we may be headed.)

      • Naked Official #9000

        Tpfkaa i want to take you seriously but as soon as BPOE mantra #9000 “other world class cities ie” gets trotted out you lost me.

        Anyways, we ought to let assimiliation catch up with infiltration. I propose a Moratorium on all non communist party member immigrants for 20 years.

        Ps. You’re a racist

  19. The Poster Formerly Known As Anonymous

    (Okay, okay, Naked Official has permission to call me racist. You could not call yourself a VREAA commenter if you haven’t been called racist by Nekkid at least five times in a month).

    Forgive my disharmony!

    • the poster formerly known as anonymous

      (Oh yeah but they should first fast track the applications for my best friend from Trinidad and my favourite co worker from New Zealand before they tighten up immigration quotas :b )

  20. The Poster Formerly Known As Anonymous

    ugh now I have the Ranter’s Remorse. I guess the are can stand a few more rounds of growth factor and still retain its backwoods rainforest charms and friendly peepls.

    But at least I will never have have the Renter’s Remorse!! Never!

    I am going to get a tattoo that says “Renter ’till I die” .

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