Tag Archives: Whistler

“We accepted our friend’s offer, but the deal fell through… some financial trouble with their bank. We re-listed few months ago and dropped the price, but no offers…”

line_up_at_ski_lift_whistler_mountain_whistler_700-05389295

Overheard the following exchange this am in the ski lift lineup at Whistler:
“Still have this place in Whistler?… Yes, we listed a year ago… it was on the high side… we accepted friend’s offer, but the deal fell through… some financial trouble with their bank… We re-listed few months ago and dropped the price, but no offers…”

Skier on VREAA 27 Dec 2012 4:07pm

Run That Buy Me Again – “I’ve been in and out of three properties in Whistler since 2001 and that market has been very good to me, because I’m very bullish, in real estate in general.”

“While he is becoming more of a household name as one of the dragons on TV’s Dragon’s Den and has a venture capital firm helping smaller entrepreneurs, you might not necessarily think of Bruce Croxon as a real estate investor. And yet, while living in Whistler, BC in the late 1990s, Croxon took it upon himself to get into the real estate game after having realized the value real estate can bring.

“I’ve been in and out of three properties in Whistler since 2001 and that market has been very good to me, because I’m very bullish, in real estate in general, and more specifically on the resort real estate market,” he says.
Croxon is an avid skier and while living in Whistler for about two years he decided to educate himself about the real estate market there. “I learned the market well enough so I thought I could be safe in terms of buying a place to stay and so I added a couple of more places just as pure investment. It turned out to be right for a period of time.”
The first purchase was a personal residence. But with the growth in confidence of the local market, Croxon added on to his holdings with a so-called “ski-in, ski-out” condo. He rented that out to a business he owned in the area.
“The third was more for speculation but I ended up renting it out, and at the end of the day, when I was back in Toronto, I decided to sell that one as well – that was a single family residence on a very nice piece of land,” he recalls.
Croxon explains that the resort market is of interest to him because of the limited supply of land and development potential for areas that people are interested in visiting. For example, he says Canada, specifically Whistler, has some of the best skiing opportunities in the world. “I think there is limited supply and if you want that terrain you’ve got to go there and there is a limit on how much you can build. So it was the right combinations to have an asset grow.”

With all the asset classes that have made their way in and out of Croxon’s portfolio over the years, real estate has served an important niche, especially given his investment strategy.
Says Croxon: “I’m an operator and have not been an investor until recently. [Real estate] was a way to be passively involved in an investment I developed some confidence in. You really don’t have to work that asset too much,” he explains.
“It will either go up or down on its own. For me that’s the attractive part of it. In general, I just think real estate, over a long period of time, has performed quite well. People need a place to live and it seems to be one of those asset classes that survive,” he adds.

– from ‘Dragon’s Den star reveals why he’s still bullish on real estate’, Joel Kranc, Globe and Mail, 27 Jul 2012, an article reprinted “from Canadian Real Estate Wealth Magazine, a monthly publication focused on building value through property investment”.

This has to be the hand-waviest article we’ve seen on RE investing for quite some time.
There really is no substance to it at all.
The author tells us that a guy who made money trading Whistler properties over the last 10 years is kinda sure it’s possible to make money in RE.
Why RE? Land is limited. “People need a place to live”. RE “seems to be one of those asset classes that survive”.
There is perhaps nothing that any potential RE investor could take from this article that would be of any use to them whatsoever.
There is certainly no information about the current state of the Canadian market.
Should an investor be buying or selling RE? How has the RE market actually been doing, in Whistler, or anywhere else, for that matter?
Perhaps the one lesson gleaned could be that to make money in RE, you have to buy and sell.
And that fortunate timing is crucial for many participants.
– vreaa

Whistler Hilton Blowout Sale – Looks like some American from New Jersey has defaulted and foreclosed on something like 40 units at the Hilton in Whistler.

“Anyone know what’s going on with all the HSBC foreclosure sales at the Hilton in Whistler? Looks like some American from New Jersey has defaulted and foreclosed on something like 40 units. Ouch. They are blowing them out however so you’re seeing the Whistler stats spike a bit on volume.”
ZRH2YVR at VCI 8 Jul 2012 11:06am

“My hubby owns a condo in Whistler with his sister, they bought when she suckered him into thinking this was a ‘great investment’. Currently, the thing is worth about what they paid for it, 10 years ago.”

“My hubby owns a condo in Whistler with his sister, they bought about ten years ago when she suckered him into thinking this was a “great investment!” (He didn’t know me then, if he did, believe I would have hit him over the head with a frying pan before letting him go through with this bad investment.) Here are the numbers:
– The condo cost about $225k. It’s in a rental pool, meaning the property management company takes 40% of every dollar earned. The condo owner is on the hook for everything-strata fees, hydro, property taxes, maintenance, updating the suite etc. Oh, and a mortgage.
– Every single year since they’ve owned it, they’ve lost about $10k per year. I did some quick calculations and came up with the strata fees, property taxes and property management fees take up 94% of their revenues. So, even when they don’t have a mortgage on this sucker, they are guaranteed to lose money, or make pennies.
– Currently, the thing is worth about what they paid for it, ten years ago. If they’re lucky. Property in Whistler doesn’t look so hot these days, despite his sister telling me for years she was going to be a millionaire after the Olympics. (Ya, right). I haven’t heard this lately from her. I wonder why.
– The other kicker? They don’t ski. When we go to Whistler, we’re not even allowed to stay in the condo (she’s the majority owner), because it takes away from the potential rental pool revenue. Ya, I’m a bit bitter about this damn investment, hubby’s trying to get out of it, as I’ve been throwing these numbers at him for ages. He just says “Uh huh” and looks pretty glum.
So my point in….never EVER should anyone ever invest in real estate with a family member. It’s bad news. I’ve come to the conclusion that the only person you should buy real estate with is your spouse. At least then if you get divorced you can sell and split the proceeds. With other family members, it can be a horror story if you want to sell, you’ll have to convince them to cough up the cash and buy you out. Good luck with that!!!”

— Dian as cited by Garth at greaterfool.ca 20 May 2012

Whistler RE Bust Continues – “A unit originally sold in the Four Seasons Whistler for about $1.1 million was recently resold for only $520,000. … It’s not anything wrong with Whistler or that Whistler is worth less”

Those who own a condo unit in a Whistler hotel are sitting on great potential, but at the moment the units are not showing great value.
Real estate consultant Denise Brown with Re/Max Sea to Sky Real Estate reported that a unit originally sold in the Four Seasons Whistler for about $1.1 million was recently resold for only $520,000.


“We’ve seen the prices come down significantly,” she said.
According to Brown, this segment of the real estate business is at the bottom of the cycle so prices are good right now. She said the people who are happiest in the condo hotel market are those who are in for the long-term and have made a lifestyle choice in purchasing a condo unit in a hotel.
“It is only those people who are looking for a lifestyle that own their own property in a complex that they like and believe in and want to use with their family,” she said.


Pat Kelly, from the Whistler Real Estate Company, said when condo hotel units first became available in Whistler expectations were high.
“People were buying on vision,” said Kelly. “Revenue has not met expectations in the last few years.”
According to Kelly, the lower than expected revenues produced through hotel condo units has combined with exchange rates, high strata fees, high property taxes and fixed overhead costs to drive prices down.
“The market is now valuing these things properly,” Kelly said. …
“Some of our friends to the south have had to do some pretty significant financial rationalization, which has caused them to want to sell things,” he said.
According to Brown, the people who were relying on the hotel condo units to produce high returns beyond covering all the costs associated with owning this type of property are getting out of their investments.


“It’s not anything wrong with Whistler or that Whistler is worth less,” said Kelly. “It is just that people are prepared to spend less.”

- from ‘Hotel condominium units hit hard by current economy’, John French, Pique, 1 Mar 2012

—-

“Great potential, but at the moment the units are not showing great value.”
“It’s not anything wrong with Whistler or that Whistler is worth less.”
(This from the same guys, we’ll bet, who used to say stuff like “real estate is worth whatever somebody is prepared to pay for it”.)
– vreaa

Recreational Price Implosion – Okanagan; Whistler – 45% to 54%-Off


580 Sarsons Rd, Kelowna, BC V1W 2X3, Canada
1452 sq ft ‘penthouse’
Asking price $600K; “Reduced Almost $500K”


4591-258/259 Blackcomb Way
258/259 in the Four Seasons Resort provides 2 beds / 2 baths and 1,430 sq ft.  The price has just been reduced to $527.5k which implies a deal at c$500k is achievable (which is in line with the recent sale in the building).  [Sold for $519K -ed.] That compares to an original 2002 sale price of $1,138k for this unit!”

[hat-tip Makaya at VCI]

Coming soon to a metropolitan area near you. – vreaa

Whistler – “Some jaw dropping recent sales. These examples are 50% off the 2002 high. This market is starting to tank.”

“Finding actual Whistler stats is as rare as Yeti sightings. The local firms are all in cahoots running the private WLS. I will see what I can find. Sales are a dismal 6-15 per week. Some jaw dropping recent sales, single family home in Alpine for $550K, a ski in/out condo at the Aspens for $300K. These examples are 50% off the 2002 high. This market is starting to tank I fully expect more price pain for 2012. We need the U.S buyers back.”Lady Luck at RETalks 2 Jan 2012 9:19pm