“It’s nice to see prices finally dropping, but at this point my wife and I don’t give a rats. We’ve decided to keep renting and stay mobile regardless of further drops.
We’ve previously felt tied to Vancouver because of my six-figure salary, but lately we decided that we might just move anyway. Given the cheaper housing elsewhere, it might pay to take a pay cut and live somewhere where it doesn’t rain most of the time. It won’t happen for a year or two until we get all our ducks in order, but we’re no longer committed to living in a sub-arctic rainforest. Life’s short, money isn’t everything, and there’s better places to live.”
- betamax at greaterfool.ca 16 Feb 2013 5:43am
Most Recent Comments:
- Nemesis on Chat Thread
- Nemesis on Chat Thread
- Nemesis on Chat Thread
- Real Estate Tsunami on Chat Thread
- Real Estate Tsunami on Chat Thread
- Real Estate Tsunami on Chat Thread
- Farmer on Chat Thread
- Farmer on Chat Thread
- Farmer on Chat Thread
- rod_jonsson on Chat Thread
- Nemesis on Chat Thread
- Nemesis on Chat Thread
Type of Anecdote
- 01. He Said, She Said (247)
- 02. Profiting from the Boom (441)
- 03. Changed my Life (103)
- 04. Changed my Career (38)
- 05. Where do Buyers get the money? (958)
- 06. Held my Nose and Leapt (96)
- 07. Avoiding Vancouver (375)
- 08. Overextended Buyers (1182)
- 09. Delaying Buying (315)
- 10. Demoralized Renters? (362)
- 11. Regrets about Investing in RE (417)
- 12. Effects of Development (274)
- 13. 2010 Olympics Related (74)
- 14. Social Effects of the Boom (1255)
- 15. Misallocation of Resources (958)
- 16. Missed The Boat? (236)
- 17. The Froogle Scott Chronicles (27)
- 18. Spot The Speculator (171)
- 19. BlastRadiusPostCards (17)
- 20. The Limitless Demand Argument For Ongoing Market Strength (70)
- 21. Vancouver RE-Verse [Found Poems] (8)
- 22. RE References In Popular Culture (41)
- 23. Jumping The Shark (1)
- 24. Policies On Housing (10)
- 25. Epigrams For The Bubble (1)
- 26. Premature Calls Of "Bottom" (3)
- 27. Seller Panic (3)
- 28. Erroneous Causation Theories For Falling Prices (7)
- 29. Bubblespeak (1)
- Uncategorized (176)
Blogroll
- 01 Vancouver Condo Info
- 02 AmericaCanada [retired, no archive]
- 03 Housing Analysis
- 04 RealEstateTalks BC
- 05 Vancouver RE and then some
- 06 Whispers from the Village on the Edge of the Rainforest
- 07 Greater Fool
- 08 Canada Bubble
- 09 Rob Chipman's blog
- 10 YatterMatters
- 11 condohype [retired; archives available]
- 12 vancouver (un)real estate
- 13 Agent Will's Stats [retired]
- 14 Landlord Rescue
- 15 The Economic Analyst
- 16 Canadian Housing Price Charts
- 17 Hoodsurf [retired Jun 2011]
- 18 World Housing Bubble
- 19 Vancouver Price Drop
- 20 North American Economics
-
Latest Anecdotes:
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
- “What’s the worst that can happen? You can’t pay your mortgage, so sell your house! No fear.”
Follow vreaa on twitter
- Chat Thread wp.me/pcq1o-5vD 3 weeks ago
VREAArchives
- April 2013
- March 2013
- February 2013
- January 2013
- December 2012
- November 2012
- October 2012
- September 2012
- August 2012
- July 2012
- June 2012
- May 2012
- April 2012
- March 2012
- February 2012
- January 2012
- December 2011
- November 2011
- October 2011
- September 2011
- August 2011
- July 2011
- June 2011
- May 2011
- April 2011
- March 2011
- February 2011
- January 2011
- December 2010
- November 2010
- October 2010
- September 2010
- August 2010
- July 2010
- June 2010
- May 2010
- April 2010
- March 2010
- February 2010
- January 2010
- December 2009
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- October 2008
- September 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
Tags
Anecdotes Banks Bears blogs British Columbia Bubble Bulls buyers Canada Capitulation China CMHC Construction Debt Economy Employment Fear Foreign buyers Fundamentals Government Housing Interest Rates Landlords Life Media Mortgage brokers Okanagan Olympics Ownership Prediction Real Estate Realtors Relationships Rent Retirement RE_ATM sellers Sentiment Speculators Toronto US Vancouver Victoria Visual Anecdote Whistler
My goodness, is this coming up a lot recently amongst *bearish* friends. I find that so interesting: that part of the turning is almost that people are watching the top come in and thinking – is it worth it anyway? Even if it drops, is this REALLY where I want to be?
I work with young families these days, and in every new batch, at least half are planning to leave the Lower Mainland within two years. If this actually turns out, there will be a whole lotta leavin’ goin’ on of people in their late twenties, early thirties.
Just tell them not to come here. The last thing we need is a zillion soggy Vancouverite economic refugees on our doorstep.
Sad. We will be losing people who would contribute to society and economy and in return the people who leach off the system come here for the weather, better healthcare and welfare
Don’t worry. Must of them will be underwater on their mortgage(s) and therefore immobile.
I can understand this sentiment, the high housing prices make you think twice about the cost of living in the lower mainland. It’s not just that housing prices are high, it’s also the rain, it’s also the somewhat low paying jobs (could be more elsewhere,as far as I know, Vancouver is not known for paying top salaries) …and then one starts looking around and realizes that life overall could be better elsewhere. Also one looks at the quality of housing available in Vancouver and feels kind of depressed….some of these houses I wouldn’t even buy if they were 75% off the cost! I’m not even sure we will buy if (when) prices crash, might just stick it out here till retirement then take off with the savings from renting all these years.
QUOTE = “Also one looks at the quality of housing available in Vancouver and feels kind of depressed….some of these houses I wouldn’t even buy if they were 75% off the cost! ”
Hear hear!
People forget that although it’s neato and dandy to have funky location, you spend most of your non-working hours *inside* and not outside your house. It’s where you sleep, cook, eat, raise your children, keep your stuff, watch TV, and have sex. These are a lot of the things that we buy houses to enable, and buying a crappy house reduces the quality of these activities.
A soggy, run-down dump of a bungalow with 57 coats of paint on the trim inside and beaten old floors and a poor layout and no storage space and no garage may be tolerable because it’s in Kitsilano, but that does not make life inside it *good*.
I know a dump when I see one, and Vancouver has to have the highest concentration of paper millionaires living in student-ghetto-grade repainted teardowns (or miniature concrete shoeboxes) that I’ve ever seen.
Kits has one of the highest infidelity rates according to the website that help people have affairs. Maybe these paper millionaires are so stressed about their over price piece of shoddy shit that they need some good feeling, excitement and stress relief from an affair
Is the sex really better in nicer houses? I’d have thought realtors would have stressed that. Maybe it’s a subtext that I missed.
Good… go…i’ll bet they’ll be back in a few when they realize that this may not be The BPOE, but it’s still livable, compared to the rest of the world. Sure we have our problems, but for goodness sakes look around at the rest of the world…it’s a s**t hole!!
Have you traveled much in your life?
Probably never left the west side.
Yes I have…and am always grateful to be back!
Have no fear! Ethnocentric Man is here!
Myopic garbage.
Anon,
Please tell us all the dump you visited.
Really, I’m interested.
Thanks
After living in this great country of ours, I don’t think any one of you morons would last a month out there!
I am genuinely curious where else you have lived Anon.
C’mon, kids. Doesn’t a place with seriously above average housing prices without commensurate wages imply a fair number of people who think “BPOE for me, or good enough, anyway”? Here’s one in the wild.
It might not be the bpoe but its still the best place in Canada. And Canada is one of the best countries in the world to live in. Im guessing you were born here, because if you weren’t you would appreciate how lucky you are to live in a democracy with universal health care. There are more important things than money and sunny weather my friend.
I wasn’t being sarcastic (for once). I may make my home in the BigSmoke, but I spend enough time in “Super, Natural” that I felt it prudent last fall to relieve a Fraser Valley mortgage broker of his BavarianBirdOfPrey merely for my occasional use while visiting. Yes, at a discount. Yes, substantial (both the car and the discount).
tribalism/nationalism is effective to the extent one is deficient in self esteem, self confidence … ergo ‘canada’ is a brand designed for infliction upon canadians … aside – i suspect mr rennie understands well the primary target of his ‘vancouver’ brand
Just came back from Miami, Florida, I was quite shocked when I saw ok-looking houses in Coral Gables that resembled what you see Commercial Dr to go for $150K-$300K. It’s 30 C degrees in February, city is not as nearly congested as Vancovuer is (hello North Shore), and in all honesty, there were much less signs of homelessness and poverty that you’ll see in your average lower mainland neighbourhood. … I used to be the kind of guy who would not stop talking about BPOE, but my mindset has definitely changed recently…
http://globalbasic.econoday.com/byshoweventfull.asp?fid=456089&cust=global-basic&year=2013&lid=0&prev=/byweek.asp#top
The USA reports housing starts tomorrow.
I’m hearing the sentiment quite often lately: “What’s the point of waiting for the house prices to drop. Even if they drop by 20%, the average house will still cost 800k. For that money, I can get myself 3 houses in X. Wondering if I will live all my life in a basement or with my parents”.
Once these sentiments gain focus and strengts, they could lead to a serious stampede towards the borders.
With many of the young and productive people gone, what will happen to the elderly?
I guess, bring more foreign temporary workers.:)
This is heresy and heretics need to be stamped out for they are agents of chaos. We the Inquisition of the God Emperor must seek out and destroy heresy, lest it takes hold among the lesser people and requiring the Exterminatus.
Ok ok….yeah, seriously who came up with this BPOE thing and how could so many people believe this? Is this like a form of the Stockholm kidnap victim syndrome??
Well… as it happens, Space889… it all began with a LicensePlate.
Sadly, this is not a PrisonWorkShop drama… albeit, if some NotoriousWags had their way – the LeaderIllustration’s antagonists would, in a more just universe, be stamping out license plates in perpetuity…
http://tinyurl.com/a5sxgfh
Retirement abroad seems to be a popular topic lately too. Developing countries in the Americas seem to be presented, or marketed, as places where Americans and Canadians can retire to see their savings go farther. Maybe with the impending loss in home equity many people in Vancouver will be facing there will be more interest in relocating.
My girlfriend and I definitely are researching the option for retirement. Any one else out there thinking the same thing? Have heard places such as Belize, Panama, and Ecuador are developing nice retirement places for ex- Pats. I understand that it isn’t comparing apples to apples but was just wondering what others see as decent real estate options.
Not interested. Doesn’t rain enough, cost of living is too low, not enough drive-by shootings, food is too fresh and varied.
I totally agree, Vancouver is pretty nice on a world scale, but you would have to perform that patented Rennie calculation and remove the top 20% before you could possibly call it TBPOE, and even then it would rain too much and be lacking in the food and cultural choices.
Digg
Of course, it’s not comparing apples to apples,
It’s comparing daily sunshine to daily rain
True, I have to correct people sometimes. They ask where I was to get such a great tan and I say that I stayed in town, this is actually rust.
[cymbal]
hahaha
I am in my early thirties; my wife and I always talk about leaving; we both have good jobs.
I hear this also in my circle of friends. All educated and have well paying jobs.
Just did that, quite.. Shut down regular business, sold property and poached seriously down. Cash in pocket and time to think….
wow… is all I can say.
Silver
Congratulations! You definitely did a good job in selling your crown property.
With all these backing up, various cuts and looming deficits in BC economy, cash in pocket is way better than “norminal profit” on paper! Honest investment advisors in my hometown where I came from actually told people not to get overly-invested, and not to invest in high-risk investment tools even the Leiman Brothers might tell you are safe to go when you are about retirement age – missed gains is way better than total loss.
thanks Realtor behavior;
…another best part is that I now have a Document from the Crown Proving and providing Proof that my New Crown property is actually worth less than the Assessment the Crown Produced. I can now back my Facts, with their own paper.
…. It’s the looming change’s to the tax structure’s coming that frightens me… something/someone has to pay for all this…its not an if or but….
There are losses to me now… but I believe that will be offset by the problems coming to Vancouver and the GVRD.(olympic Village anyone). The Public coffers are Drunk on the revenue stream from real estate value increases and the used to be booming volume of sales. I spent 4 years exploring the way they taxed my business property.
The result was me and two other business’s on my block sold (1/3 the block).. two of us have basically quit for the moment…
Its not a time to set up a non financial business right now… too dam vulnerable to the muni tax police(we are land based business). We have to many public employees that we pay for getting plush raises on my coin…. and never see anything from them except a bill…
A small house…
A hill with and a veranda sounds real good right now…
and a half mill in flexability….. hmmm.
Almost every small business on commercial street I have talked to about this is getting murdered by the tax’s and fees being shoved at them… its about the margins folks.
If a stupid bloody long hair dope smoking self employed Commie can get this… why can’t the rest of these educated idiots…
… Oh right they are socialist and use public force to back their extortion.
And as the council face Angela Rimmer said..I deserve to pay more tax’s as I have to much personal land and I am depriving people of a place to live by not developing it…
The last couple years I have gone on trips outside the country, I stopped getting homesick and actually started to dread coming back, whereas when I was younger I would get really homesick.
We are pretty close to packing up and leaving, if I were to lose my job, I am gone. Maybe not Canada, but Vancouver for sure.
I have had the same thoughts for the past few years. My business was tying me down here. I have downsized a bit, but as long as my income is good, I am staying put.
Some of the target destinations on my list are getting really cheap, though…
Yeah, yeah, you’re all leaving… soon.
In the meantime keep paying my mortgage.
I’ll pay your $1200/mo mortgage if you pay the $250,000 in depreciation, transaction costs, and debt servicing costs over the next 36 months.
Deal?
And do not forget to pay taxes on a property and to service the appliances/furnace every year – otherwise I move to a better rental and cheaper too, soon!
I already count at least 6 friends who have left in the past 3 years.
I had an entire circle of close friends –4 couples– pull up stakes and go east within a period of about 6 months.
If you count immediate family doing the same, it was almost everyone I was close with within a couple of years.
All had nearly identical stories: educated, professional, and either drawing stable salaries here from the government or making *relative* pauper’s wages in industry.
Each couple was nearly ready to have kids, and was faced with the usual choice of buying one house here vs. 2 in Toronto, 3 in Ottawa, or 4 in Kamloops.
Then there were the syringes in the streets, the poor relative career prospects, the inability to get out of the city on Friday after work or back in on Sunday, and the persistent threat of economy-crushing socialists regaining their usual throne.
I can’t remember why I stayed.
Dave,
“Paying someone’s mortgage” is sooo 20th Century.
We left the BPOE in our mid-thirties 15 years ago and moved to Toronto where we actually get paid what we’re worth. Bought a really solid, 80 year old house (very well maintained) 13 years ago and are almost mortgage free. That’s the difference between well paid work and appropriately priced housing. My wife and I are both self-employed.
Speaking as a guy who left, Vancouver isn’t the BPOE or even the best place in Canada. I admit I check out this blog out of morbid curiosity still, but there’s very little I miss about the place.
I’m not a huge fan of Toronto but I’ll tell you this: I landed a very nice 6 figure job building cloud based applications for financial services. I got myself a nifty apartment on the 27th floor of a building on Bloor and Sherbourne, a stone’s throw from Rosedale and Rogers headquarters. It’s AWESOME, it’s vintage 70s but kept in good shape and the kitchen is a true chef’s kitchen in that (1) there’s lots of storage (2) it’s well – lit (3) Lots of counter tops and (4) it’s very easy to clean…. and it’s only costing me $1,225 including heat water and power.
I guarantee you, even renting is cheaper in Toronto – or at least the quality of rental stock is higher.
I have lived in Europe, the Middle East and Vancouver. Vancouver is the worst place by far, expensive rainy and low wages. I think it is time to move on again, this time permanently. Born in Vancouver but thankful for my European passport.