“I moved away in 2002 and came back to Vancouver in 2008. As a specialist physician in this city, I have a nice income, allowing me to buy a house in the Oakridge area.
However, I have to echo some of the others here that the city is not the same one that we all grew up in. I grew up here in the 80s and 90s and remember a gentler, quieter town. All Vancouver wants to be right now is with the big leagues–the New Yorks, San Frans, Londons, etc. However, it is not in the same league as the above. Vancouver is nice to live in, yes, but it does not have the culture that true world class cities have.
The other thing is, people here are so obsessed with buying. I suppose it has to do with ego. And that is one thing you’ll notice. After a decade or more of being told by the mainstream media, the government, and ourselves that we’re the best place in the world to live, we have bought into that craze. Fact is, Vancouver has problems, lots of it. I’ve lived in many other major cities in the US and have been to Europe and Asia and Vancouver has the same problems that other big cities have..
The other thing here is, nobody wants to rent. People complain they are priced out of the city, but in actual fact, you can rent a nice basement suite in a nice part of town for dirt cheap compared to San Francisco or NYC. If you want the lifestyle and the good schools in Vancouver, and the short commutes and can’t afford to buy, then rent. It is not throwing your money away. Most people in the big city rent anyway.”
- Brian at VREAA 1 Aug 2012 12:42pm
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- LadyInWaiting on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
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- bailinginbc on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Real Estate Tsunami on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Real Estate Tsunami on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- LadyInWaiting on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Nemesis on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
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Latest Anecdotes:
- “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
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It’s true-there’s nothing wrong with renting, and in fact you really CAN find some REALLY nice digs for a whole lot less than it would cost you to own! Impress your friends (the ones who don’t know you rent). Often people are impressed with my current residence (though it is made of cardboard, that’s another story), it looks like a really nice place, in a decent neighbourhood. If they have the mistaken impression that I own, well, I’m not going to correct them (most people just assume I’m a homeowner, I mean, who rents anyway at this stage of life-as this poster suggests-nobody wants to rent!). But he’s also right, a lot of people in big cities don’t own, they rent, world-class cities like New York, people always complain about what? Their rent of course! Vancouver is not a world-class city, if it were, people would be more willing to come here and just rent, like in NYC, instead people do all sorts of financial gymnastics in order to buy some crappy house. I think the day is coming when people realize that those houses are crappy and not worth $1million. Soon, very soon.
Agreed.
An important component of the speculative mania in Vancouver RE was the (self-imposed and external pressure) that people experienced to become ‘owners’ and avoid being ‘renters’. Makes no sense logically, but it was a significant feature of this bubble. People indeed did “all sorts of financial gymnastics” in order to become ‘owners’.
It is NOT dirt cheap to rent! Although it is cheaper than buying I find it surprisingly expensive for a decent place. You would be lucky to find a SFH for less than $3000 a month. At that rate and bases on the average income then it would take most people more than half their after tax income to pay rent. How is that dirt cheap??!!
This IS dirt cheap, for a whole house, compared to other world class cities. Look at rents for NYC and SF and you’ll know what I mean. My inlaws can’t find a 2br in SF for under 2500k
Hi Brian, you say Vancouver is not in the same league as NYC or SF and then you go on to make rental comparisons to those same cities. Perhaps a better comparison would be Seattle, Portland or San Diego? Then I think Vancouver rent would look expensive. I also question if any basement suite can truly be called nice, or is that just another Vancouver compromise?
@allen
Seattle and Portland would probably be the the most comparable. San Diego’s rent to buy ratio is all over the place depending on location (I’ve been looking for a job down there, the cost of living and where I might be living are big factors. Moving to Vancouver and its crucible of cost of living were a wake-up call on that front.) That said, Seattle even in the most desirable “over priced” areas is the similar to substantially cheaper than Vancouver. The cost of actually buying, especially once you factor in the American tax advantages, tends to be the cheaper than renting last time I checked, which was about a year ago. Things might have changed since then.
Hi logrider123…I have a friend in the process of moving to Seattle and just closed on a house overlooking the University of Washington. He would echo your feeling that both buying and renting are cheaper, and in his postion a purchase made the most sense.
“At that rate and bases on the average income then it would take most people more than half their after tax income to pay rent.”
Exactly, how are all these average income earners BUYING (or can continue to buy forever) these average houses?
I’ve seen quite a few SFHs to rent for about $2000 (in the East, obviously, maybe not the west?). This seems quite reasonable to me, though admittedly we pay far less for a 2 bed/2bath condo (we’re cheap). We are a couple who makes over $100k household income, and, paying $24,000 per year for rent is below what is considered affordable (so they say, I think it is considered below 30% of gross pay to be affordable-correct me if I’m wrong). Personally, we pay 16.2% of our gross income on rent (utilities are minimal).So I wouldn’t say “dirt cheap” but cheap, nonetheless. Many people in other parts of the world pay huge % of their incomes on rent. Like, Vancouver, if you’re a homeowner ;p
The last SFH I rented had 4 bedrooms, had been recently renovated, and cost $1200/mo. It was in New West, and the utilities were another $300-$400, and it wasn’t huge for a 4 bedroom house. But still, it was clean and quiet with a huge yard and lots of parking. I miss it quite a bit.
The only downside was that they were not professional landlords; instead they were lying scammy flippers. They told us that it was not for sale, then tried to evict us (without grounds) a few months later to facilitate open houses.
The RTA had quite a bit to say about that, and we got our pound of flesh. But in the end the place did sell and the new owners exercised their right to take the place over.
I’m older and wiser now, and if I had it to do over again I would sign a lease. Leases endure everything, including a change of ownership.
My point is that you can’t take a little casual Craigslist surfing as a good indicator of the price of all rental housing in the LM. Landlords will fish for people willing to overpay, too, just like sellers will. Skip the fishers, and instead seek out the people who don’t know what the internet is (there are lots of them) or who desperately need the revenue. Set a limit, negotiate, and above all be patient. If you are a desirable tenants, you will find something.
And when you do, SIGN A LEASE!
I grew up in VCR/Burnaby years ago. It was a gentler, quieter town back then.. There was none of the phoney pretentiousness that is around now. I think that people actually cared back then.
Generally agree with the sentiments but I wholeheartedly disagree that renting (esp. in the nice parts of town) is dirt cheap. Basement suites in Kits rent for $1500 a month or more. My friend rents one for $1650. I almost rented one for $1750 until I came to my senses and decided to move to Surrey. Renting in Vancouver is NOT dirt cheap and the quality of rentals–esp. basement suites–is often very poor.
Again, compared to world class cities, rent is cheap. Just look at rent to price ratio
But isn’t the whole point that Vancouver is not in the same league as those “world class” cities? Rent here is expensive when viewed from that perspective, although it is far, far less than owning.
The fact that we view paying up to $2,000/month to live in someone’s basement as “dirt cheap” shows how even those who see this as the emperor-with-no-clothes phenomenon that it is have a very skewed idea of what constitutes reasonable expectations in terms of housing.
Just 10 years ago, that same money would easily have allowed you to carry a mortgage on your own, above ground house.
Right on Sheesh, apples to oranges comparisons.
I just looked on New York Craigslist adds and it looks like you can get nice apartments in NYC for about the same price as dingy basement suites in Kits.
Who says you have to rent in Kits?
Harold and Elmo…
http://tinyurl.com/d4tp72y
Never mind what’s going on in other cities, it’s far more economical to rent in this city than it is to own – even when you factor out risk of owner’s equity loss. Can anyone show me even a single rental property in Vancouver that cash flows positive (at current valuations)?
http://tinyurl.com/8heu2ll
Yes! OK, you got me there on a technicality! Good one.
” Can anyone show me even a single rental property in Vancouver that cash flows positive”
Lots, (well, not lots…) but… it depends on the downpayment. And then it depends upon luck.
Vancouver is not SF, Paris, London, or NY. It’s a Chinese finger puzzle: the more you try to emulate one of those places the more you fail.
Doesn’t matter what city you are in, if you don’t cash flow positive on a rental you’re just speculating.
Spec’ers – lots of them in Vancouver.
I don’t think you can factor in down payment when considering cash flow positive because you should really include the opportunity cost of the capital being invested in that unit. Or – after making the equity investment, you could then see what the ROI is and see how it is negative or very low.
My point is that I don’t think vancouver compares to true world class cities. Problem is people think Vancouver does, because of the high real estate prices here. How many times have you heard, Vancouver is world class and everyone wants to be here and that’s why prices are so high. But when you looke at rents, a better indicator of who actually wants to live here, it’s relatively cheap when you compare to world class cities.
And the other thing is you guys are comparing rents in kits, which is probably the highest priced neighborhood. In SF, you’re looking at kits like prices in gritty neighborhoods like the Mission. (I cite SF because I’ve had personal experience with it). Forget places like SOMA (similar to yaletown) where my friend is renting a 2br for over 5k.