“Vancouver’s housing market has claimed a high-profile victim. Jordan Tinney, the Vancouver School Board’s deputy superintendent, is leaving his position for a job with the Surrey school district.
Tinney was a superintendent in Comox Valley before landing his VSB position in 2010. He’s been commuting back and forth to Vancouver Island, where his family still lives, ever since.
He has two children—one who’s graduated and moved out, and one in Grade 2. The 50-year-old rents in Dunbar, but his family had expected to be reunited by now.
Tinney said he underestimated how high house prices were in the city before he moved here. “I went on a walk at night [in Dunbar] and a house was there and then the house was gone and there was a lot for sale. It went for, I think, $1.6 million for just dirt,” he said. “I just couldn’t believe it…When you come from Vancouver Island and you look to buy in Vancouver, there’s a dramatic difference. So it was certainly a factor. I just want to have my family over here.”
Tinney’s family favours a detached home with a yard, and they searched for property across the Lower Mainland.
His first appointment with a realtor was to see a home in Port Moody but it took him two-and-a-half hours to drive there due to an accident on the highway. Frustrated by the prospect of a long commute, Tinney also looked at renting or buying in Vancouver.
“We considered very strongly Yaletown and around downtown, just getting a condo as a family, but we’re used to a yard. We’re a family, right. We’ve got kids and a dog and moving into a condo is not necessarily the easiest thing… our criteria has always been a detached home with a yard,” he said. Tinney also wanted his son in the same school district in which he worked, which was looking less likely if he remained in Vancouver “unless we made a very, very, significant life adjustment,” he said.
…
“Shortly after he arrived in Vancouver, we very quickly saw how lucky we were to have someone like Jordan Tinney. He is absolutely outstanding. He’s our key problem solver—very quickly he showed himself to be someone who was able to resolve what sometimes seemed like impossible problems—very visionary. Just an amazing leader,” said Vancouver School Board chair Patti Bacchus. She added there’s a lot of competition amongst districts for senior managers of Tinney’s calibre.
“We knew he was being recruited by other districts. We knew he wasn’t able to find housing he was looking for,” she said, calling his departure not a surprise, but a disappointment.
“It is a huge gain for Surrey and it is a loss for Vancouver.”
- from ‘Class Notes: Pushed out, Naoibh O’Connor, Vancouver Courier, 12 Apr 2012
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Latest Anecdotes:
- “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
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Sounds like a strategic retreat.
Agree in general that housing priced out some wonderful professionals Vancouver needs in great desire. But why uses housing price in west side for reference?
Living in van east, Burnaby or new west won’t qualify one as a high profile personal?
Housing price became forbidden for our lower income workers, but there are choices for a high profile manager if it’s the only reason for change of job.
Just a little disappointed that a lots like me living at van east were not treated as decent. Now it’s a choice of a house in van west or nothing, leaving for another city’s west side.
My point exactly. Interesting though. I can’t afford west side so I will move to Surrey? what is up with that.
You need to look at what’s available south of the Fraser vs anything New West/Burnaby and westward. No comparison. Especially if you don’t work downtown.
house in Van West or moving to Surrey? That’s like cutting off your leg to fix a hangnail
“Just a little disappointed that a lots like me living at van east were not treated as decent.”
Top 10 Vancouver public schools, by Fraser Institute ranking:
8.4: Shaughnessy (West)
7.8: McKechnie (West)
7.6: Jules Quesnel (West)
7.6: Tyee: (East)
7.4: Maple Grove (West)
7.4: Sir Wilfred Laurier (West)
7.2: David Lloyd George (West)
7.0: Kerrisdale (West)
6.9: Queen Mary (West)
6.9: Elsie Roy (Downtown)
http://britishcolumbia.compareschoolrankings.org/elementary/SchoolsByRankLocationName.aspx
don’t be ridiculous van school. houses near nanamimo , renfrew are listed around 1 million dollars. forget the west side. lets do a little simple math. you find a 1950s’ bungle around 7th and nanaimo for $ 900,000. say that you have somehow managed to save $200,000 in cash, after any debts have been deducted, which is not likely for most. rafter land transfer cost $25-$30,000 and any realtor fees you are in for $950,000. so you need a mortgage for $750,000. at these never before seen low interest rates , which will double just to get back to normal levels, your monthly payment at a 5 yr. fixed rate of 3% and 25 yr amortization would be around $4200 a month or $50,000 a year after tax…so $80,000 a year before tax. add on your utilities, property tax and any maintenance and you are looking at $100,000 a year to finance that house. remember that you have not eaten yet or paid for anything else that you do or need. when rates rise, which mark carney keeps warning all canadians that they will- we are going to either see people trying to rent their basement suites for $ 4,000 a month or we are going to see a huge collapse and tons of foreclosures and you know what we will see then? masses of vancouverites asking the govt for help and blaming the banks for lending them the money or blaming those that brought in all the cash from offshore and bought up certain parts of the city, driving the real-estate market to ridiculous levels. so bottom line-east van is out of reach for most of us.
correction…i used a 4.5% rate
Even at a 3% rate, you are 100% correct – a tear-down on a busy street in New West is pushing the $1M mark now – definitely out of reach for 99% of families. The GVRD is officially offshore only.
Wow that must have been a tough choice. Like a switch the single family dwelling is out of reach. I know nothing moves in a straight line but 10 years is awfully fast to render an entire asset class out of reach.
actually it’s not that fast. the city needs to increase its density significantly. way too much land zoned single family and that is why prices are so exorbitant.
I am fascinated at the sudden shift from “within reach” to “out of reach” in not too much time. It’s like the entire City decided to wake up and decide that the single family house is no longer realistic. Higher density seems like a logical step to make but the way by which things are to change seems a bit sudden.
Given all the empty/partially occupied SF homes as outlined in a recent post here, do you really think density is the issue? Every other city in North America has a large component of single family why wouldn’t Vancouver? Kids, dog and a fish tank in a condo? I guess it can be one but it’s not ideal.
“Like a switch the single family dwelling is out of reach. I know nothing moves in a straight line but 10 years is awfully fast to render an entire asset class out of reach”.
50 % of this asset class was out of reach 25 years ago. Another 30% has become unaffordable in the past 10 years. Not a straight line
This won’t end well. It’s pretty sad when professionals can’t afford a dump in East Van (and they ARE dumps!). Moving to Surrey seems to have been the solution for a lot of people. What will become of this city when (if) a crash happens? Lots of upset people who feel gypped from spending $800k on a house that shouldn’t be more than $250k. Then again, there are those of us who are toughing it out renting in inappropriate housing situations (basement suites, condos too small for families) in this city rather than take the debt plunge. And why should we? The world is starting to wake up to the fact that we have a serious problem here. Soon Vancouverites will realize this too, though it will be too late for many. I will say…cry me a river…I’m sick of it all.
I’m sick of it too. It’s nauseating watching the deluded masses wandering around thinking they live in the BPOE smugly confident that a two million dollar 33ft patch of dirt is normal and sustainable.
Mass delusion, and a perfect setup for a world of hurt when the music stops.
“It’s pretty sad when professionals can’t afford a dump in East Van (and they ARE dumps!). Moving to Surrey seems to have been the solution for a lot of people”.
probably more to this decision than a simple Surrey for Vancouver swap. I can honestly think of 6 or 8 better local communities than Vancouver to raise a young family – Vancouver would be near the bottom of my list
Yes pricedoutfornow, all of East Van is just dumps. Nothing else there.
“In many ways this group may be more influential than the much ballyhooed 20-something. Unlike younger adults, who are often footloose and unattached, people between the ages of 35 and 44 tend to be putting down roots. As a result, they constitute the essential social ballast for any community, city or suburb.
Losing this population represents a great, if rarely perceived, threat to many regions, particular older core cities. Rust Belt centers such as Cleveland and Detroit have lost over 30% of this age group over the decade.
More intriguing, and perhaps counter-intuitive, “hip and cool” core cities like San Francisco, New York and Boston have also suffered double-digit percent losses among this generation. New York City, for example, saw its 25 to 34 population of 2000 drop by over 15% — a net loss of over 200,000 people — a decade later. San Francisco and Oakland, the core cities of the Bay Area, lost more than 20% of this cohort over the decade, and the city of Boston lost nearly 40%.”
http://www.magid.com/node/179
I probably wont be popular on this website: it is real hard to fathom a RE crash in Vancouver. Many powerful instituitions have too much stake in the ground – these organizations have the political clout to tailor rules to allow the price hikes: it is not right or wrong, it is a fact and that is where I will put my money.
It’s not that you are unpopular, just misguided. Your hypothesis is correct, but your conclusion is wrong.
“Many powerful instituitions have too much stake in the ground”
Most of us will not dispute that. We’ve seen the campaign contribution records for Gregor Robertson, Susan Anton, etc.
“these organizations have the political clout to tailor rules to allow the price hikes.”
That was also true in the US. And Ireland. And Japan 20 years ago. How did those scenarios play out?
Policymakers can prolong the bubble, but not indefinitely. There are several other possible catalysts.
– CMHC reaching its cap. This is underway, and may significantly reduce the cheap credit fueling the bubble.
– Rising mortgage rates, which are essentially controlled by Ben Bernanke, whom local policymakers have no influence on.
– A psychological shift which causes first time buyers to drop out. This could come from: a collapse in China, falling commodity prices, a significantly weakening local economy, another war (e.g. Iran), etc.
Jordan Tinney is just using this as an excuse to escape from the VSB. It is a poorly run school board and once he arrived he realized how dysfunctional it was and decided to take a job in Surrey. End of story. Real estate is just a red herring
I think you just pointed out just how screwed Vancouver is – a broken school board where educators can’t afford to live. No wonder working families are leaving in droves.