“I work for/with a large health organization in the lower mainland. Here is the bottom line:
Recruitment to Vancouver for skilled health professionals is nearly impossible. For very skilled, technical, health professions, out-of-city recruitment just doesn’t happen. If they don’t already live here, they aren’t coming. They can make more money ($5-$7/hour more, depending on the profession) in Alberta, with housing costs way lower to live in Edmonton or Calgary. For people with families and/or student loans, Vancouver is a non-starter. Our pay here is relatively low compared to other jurisdictions, and our cost of living is enormous. Plus, our employment scene really isn’t that great here for spouses – yes, there are jobs, but the professional ranks here are pretty thin. We don’t build stuff in Vancouver – in fact, I don’t know *what* it is we actually do here!
Yes, Vancouver is a pretty city with water and trees and mountains, but guess what – you can’t eat the scenery and more young families (the ones you want to recruit for the long haul) do the math and say ‘better value elsewhere’.
I’m leaving too – just got back from a weekend in Seattle and my wife and I said “and why do we stay in Vancouver?” We have five university degrees (three Bachelors, two Masters, one PhD in progress – in health sciences and engineering, in case you were wondering) and we can’t wait to pull the pin to move to a place where we can have a house of our own and be around people that do more than just talk about real estate.
As an aside, the bigger problem with real estate in this city is that it has turned the culture into one where everyone wants to be rich, without actually doing anything. Go to a city where people care about actually doing real work, creating value, building things….wow – what a difference in energy! More than anything, that is what Vancouver lacks, and unless that attitude changes, Vancouver will be condemned to also-ran economic status and will continue its status as an economic and cultural backwater.”
- ‘Vancouver in the Rearview’ at VREAA 25 Mar 2012 12:01pm
Most Recent Comments:
- Toby on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- Nemesis on ‘Doomed’? – “Home prices in Canada are now double what they were in the 1970s in real terms. Historically, over the very long term, real home prices tend to be flat.”
- Raspberry ketone on Commit Crime To Buy A House
- Nemesis on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- You're sore, not hurt. on ‘Doomed’? – “Home prices in Canada are now double what they were in the 1970s in real terms. Historically, over the very long term, real home prices tend to be flat.”
- Ralph Cramdown on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- Farmer on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- kabloona on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- Brian on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- Nemesis on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- Burnabonian on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- dumpster diver on “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
Type of Anecdote
- 01. He Said, She Said (247)
- 02. Profiting from the Boom (442)
- 03. Changed my Life (103)
- 04. Changed my Career (38)
- 05. Where do Buyers get the money? (962)
- 06. Held my Nose and Leapt (96)
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- 11. Regrets about Investing in RE (417)
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- 16. Missed The Boat? (236)
- 17. The Froogle Scott Chronicles (27)
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- 19. BlastRadiusPostCards (17)
- 20. The Limitless Demand Argument For Ongoing Market Strength (70)
- 21. Vancouver RE-Verse [Found Poems] (8)
- 22. RE References In Popular Culture (41)
- 23. Jumping The Shark (1)
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- Uncategorized (176)
Blogroll
- 01 Vancouver Condo Info
- 02 AmericaCanada [retired, no archive]
- 03 Housing Analysis
- 04 RealEstateTalks BC
- 05 Vancouver RE and then some
- 06 Whispers from the Village on the Edge of the Rainforest
- 07 Greater Fool
- 08 Canada Bubble
- 09 Rob Chipman's blog
- 10 YatterMatters
- 11 condohype [retired; archives available]
- 12 vancouver (un)real estate
- 13 Agent Will's Stats [retired]
- 14 Landlord Rescue
- 15 The Economic Analyst
- 16 Canadian Housing Price Charts
- 17 Hoodsurf [retired Jun 2011]
- 18 World Housing Bubble
- 19 Vancouver Price Drop
- 20 North American Economics


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Latest Anecdotes:
- ‘Doomed’? – “Home prices in Canada are now double what they were in the 1970s in real terms. Historically, over the very long term, real home prices tend to be flat.”
- “The bank encouraged her to take the equity in her home to purchase another home. She bought a 2nd home at the peak.”
- “Let’s remember how we got here” – Looser and Looser CMHC Limits
- Don’t Worry, I’m Sure Somebody Will Sort This All Out – “Policymakers now know better and will be a lot more proactive in preventing a collapse.”
- “Things have changed, we are not doing that type of mortgage. We are not interested at all.”
- “We are noticing our target type of housing in price decline, albeit slow, as our money increases in value, slowly as well but outpacing housing.”
- Renter Buys In West Van – “For a few hundred more per month, you could own the place. Which is what I will be doing as my offer for a place down the street has been accepted. There is some value in staying in one place.”
- A Bed in the Bathroom, Why Not? [Let Us Count The Reasons...]
- “My husband and kids are pretty happy in our rental house within cycling distance of work that we could never have afforded otherwise. We’re doin’ pretty dang well, thank you, for median income earners in this expensive city.”
- “I Wish Them Bad Luck.” – Jim Flaherty, on those who wish to profit from Canadian RE price drops
- “We asked why he doesn’t just rent the whole house. He said he can’t, it wouldn’t cover his mortgage – he’ll get more to rent it out as two suites. These new landlords are hilarious, thinking that rent will cover their mortgage!”
- “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”

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“We have five university degrees (three Bachelors, two Masters, one PhD in progress”
and a partridge in a pear tree… Seriously, I agree. I also spent a good part of my life in school, am making decent money and have a lot of money saved/invested, and check out my username on this blog. Mind you, I could RENT a nicer place, and more and more I think that is the answer. I don’t like paying high rent, I’d rather buy, but that only applies in a normal RE market. In today’s market where you’d have to be a lunatic to buy, I guess it’s nigh time to rent a nicer place with some privacy. But I take your point about people not moving here. It’s hard to leave any city one has established themselves in, Vancouver is nothing special in that, but not impossible as you point out. Good luck and I hope you get the lifestyle all that education should have earned you.
P.s. To be clearer, moving away from your home is hard but not impossible even if it’s here in the “BPOE”, but NOT moving TO Vancouver at this point is a no brainer for anyone looking to move to/within Canada. Why move to the lowest median income/housing cost ratio city on Earth (or second, whatever it is today)? Answer: don’t!
Good posts Rearview & Basement Suite.
I hear your comments and agree with them. If make a decent income and are single or have no kids, Vancouver is a fun city and the cost of living is tolerable. If you have kids, Vancouver is a much tougher city in which to have a reasonable lifestyle. If I didn’t have close family ties here, I’d almost certainly move down to the US. The lifestyle down south is much better, the careers much more vibrant, and there are many more opportunities for motivated professionals.
“Will continue its status as an economic and cultural backwater.”
Actually, I’m not sure I agree with that statement. Culturally, Vancouver is not doing too badly. In many ways it is a more culturally interesting city than (to pick a comparable one) Seattle. But of course it pales in comparison to NYC, Boston, SF, etc.
Thanks Jeff. I haven’t been a big fan of the US, but these times certainly make it look a lot more attractive.
Basement, you really should rent a better place. From what I can tell you don’t have kids yet, and you have great income. You should really enjoy this time before it all gets crazy. Moving can’t be that hard. I think renting a good place will make waiting out the storm a lot more pleasant.
Zerodown and Mrs. Zerodown, BSc., MSc., CFA, BASc., CLS, BCLS
Correct on both fronts, though expecting the tax man to take his big bite shortly
. I do agree with you, what I want is privacy. I assume a concrete tower gives the best chance at some sound proofing (short of a whole house), so that’s what I have in mind now. I was delaying the family thing myself in large part due to this bubble and my stubbornness about renting a nice/expensive place, before buying. But I think you are right, one can only wait so long and rent is a good option. Thanks for the advice. Nice degree list yourselves by the way it almost wrapped to the next line :-O.
http://www.padmapper.com/show.php?type=0&id=106861773&src=main
Thanks Zerodown that looks sweet, and it’s against rush hour too. After taxes are done I’ll try to make this my next hobby.
I still think Vancouver has always been this way to some degree — the westside was vaulted stratospheric in the early 1990s with (guess what). So in my view it’s a matter of magnitude but the underlying quiescent anecdote will remain apres le bubble pop.
Nonsense! My wife and I both work in healthcare, both here in Vancouver, PHSA and VCH. We are currently experiencing a flood of applications from our local talent, the USA (especially), and around the world. It is a very competitive hiring environment. Local nursing schools are producing far too many graduates and few have employment offers upon graduation. My wife tells me that many of our medical school graduates are also having trouble. But please, don’t take my word for it, simply look at the career websites at each of our health regions and you will see very few postings. And though we only have 4 degrees between us, we know of what we speak. My wife was recently part of a team recruiting for a new pediatrician at the Children’s, MANY applicants, hired a physician from Johns Hopkins. Hey, I know it doesn’t fit with the “message” on this blog, but this is the true reality.
nts
We are personally bearish the market, and think that housing prices in Vancouver are overvalued; we think we make that clear to readers.
But, when it comes to posting anecdotes, we genuinely look for any stories about local RE… from bulls or bears… we do not attempt to massage stories selectively to project a ‘message’. I know that may seem incredible to some, but, believe me, there just aren’t that many personal stories out there from those bullish Vancouver RE. In fact, we repeatedly call out for stories from bulls… Please let us know the tales of people coming here, buying, making money in RE, etc.
So, allen, we’ll headline your story, it’s an interesting one, thanks.
Thanks VREAA. Yikes, didn’t mean to sound like a RE bull! My family and close friends are all very bearish on RE, just bullish on healthcare recruitment I suppose. I really don’t know what is going on with occupations in general here in Vancouver, but I will keep you up-to-date regarding healthcare and its potential impact on RE. Recently, the PHSA implemented a hiring freeze, with some limited exceptions. At the very least, this will limit immigration to the Vancouver area in my small corner of the world.
but how many actually move?
After talking to some interns in my travels it does appear that allen’s comment has some corroboration; nonetheless as a bright mind once said, “the plural of anecdote isn’t data”.
I do like to think the singular of data can be anecdote! Net interprovincial migration remains negative last quarter so highlighting a few “Screw you guys I’m leaving” anecdotes might have some credence.
Unfortunately, your comments do fit the message of this blog- one being the lack of employment/income opportunity for local professionals in a high cost of living region thus supporting the continual out-migration of people to economically more attractive cities.
There is one thing I don’t understand about house prices.
The bubble is growing. Deflate or burst, it will make a lot of people unhappy. Rulers will need the police to stand between them and the angry lemmings (look at Greece and now Spain).
Now, question:
How can a police officer afford Vancouver? What is the motive to join the police or any other form of collaboration with a regime that does not provide enough to cover basic needs?