Gord Goble – South Surrey Building Blitzkrieg; Thoughts and Images

Rampant speculation. Cash back mortgages at rock bottom rates. Mania – stirred by corrupt, real estate industry-funded media outlets that routinely broadcast just one side of the story. The widespread yet wholly mistaken belief that “everyone wants to live here.” Realtors as rock stars, chanting the “real estate only goes up” mantra. Buy now or be priced out forever – by hordes of Chinese. Get your real estate groove on.

The reality? Vancouver is home to the most overpriced real estate in the world. Lower mainland owners, on average, spend an absurd 70% of pre-tax income on housing, and ownership rates are upward of an astounding 70%. Mortgages are granted on stated income. Canadians, who owe $1.50-plus for every dollar of disposable income, are some of the most indebted people on the planet.

In short, the wealth we feel is on paper only – a direct by-product of the stratospheric valuations of our homes. And if everyone who could conceivably buy has already bought, if there are no renters left to rent, when the vast majority of our population is already massively in debt, when the foreigners we’re told only want to live in Vancouver find similar homes in better climates at a third or a quarter of the price – as they already have – when interest rates bump up even a point and the mortgage defaults begin, when the crash we’ve already seen in the Okanagan, parts of Vancouver Island, in the eastern Fraser Valley, and throughout most of BC finally sticks its tentacles into the Best Rainforest on Earth, when media outlets can no longer ignore declining prices, when realtors are seen not as investment gods but as the mere salespeople they are, and when this manufactured lie we call a bubble explodes and $1 million teardowns are worth a few hundred thousand, that is the reality. Everything else is merely The Matrix. Cue Keanu Reeves.

Yet the most important reality of all is this: Housing, the buying and selling of real estate to one another, the furtherance of this bloated bubble, is key to this country’s GDP. Indeed, it currently comprises anywhere from a quarter to a third of Canada’s GDP. Without it, we wouldn’t look so seemingly grand on the international stage. We wouldn’t seem to blissfully able to blow through the global downturn. It’s completely unsustainable of course, and hundreds of thousands of families and individuals who bought into the deception will be brutally impacted when it all comes apart.

But in the meantime, it is of utmost importance to our government that the mania continues unabated as long as humanly possible. We can blame the realtors, the media, the banks and the lenders, and ignorant buyers as much as we want. But it can all be traced back to the government. A government that puts up a good face by issuing repeated debt warnings yet at the same time allows this thing to continue full-throttle. “Candy is bad for you, but here’s a real easy way for you to get as much candy as you want.”

And that’s precisely why we in the Vancouver region are witness to a housing construction boom of epic proportions.

I live in a rental house in the Douglas region of extreme South Surrey, between the Peace Arch and Pacific border crossings, south of 8th Avenue. Ten years ago, this comparatively small area – just a few square miles in size – was one part ALR land, one part golf course, one part older homes on massive lots, and one part bush/forest. Indeed, it remained comparatively sleepy, comparatively untouched even two or three years ago. But the turn of the decade signaled change. And what change.

Today, the ALR land and the golf course remain. So far. Otherwise, our neighborhood is a war zone. The battle? Time. The housing/construction/real estate mafia can see the writing on the wall. They know this house of cards, this corrupt pyramid scheme, is about to come crashing down all around them. They know the last of the greater fools is out there right now, somehow oblivious to rationality, planning their fateful purchase. And after that, a void. A gaping chasm of disinterest and wholesale inability to buy.

And so they build. Non-stop. And the marketers market. Non-stop. Anything is a potential target. The forests are gone, in their place forests of signage. Homes are seemingly built in a matter of days. Backyards and a sense of privacy are pass?. The streets overflow with construction waste. Temporary real estate offices are everywhere – from makeshift trailers to show homes and all things in between. And no land outside the ALR is wasted – homes and townhomes are rammed together and crammed into any available spot. Must…catch…the…end..of…the….mania.

Even in the last vestiges of daylight on a Saturday evening, the work continues. And it was on Saturday, Feb 28, 2012, that I snapped these pics. Please note that one can walk from corner to corner of this neighborhood in just fifteen minutes. Despite what the photos seem to indicate, it is not big. Please also note there are in excess of 75 residences, either new or pre-build, currently for sale on the MLS. I expect that number to increase as more units are puked out and come available and as this bubble, finally and thankfully, blows apart. Strange how you can’t sell an overpriced future slum when there are no buyers.

The first image you’ll see below is the current Google Maps aerial shot of the region, likely taken some time recently. Suffice to say it’s now ridiculously inaccurate.

Not much has changed on the west (left) side of 172nd because it’s generally untouchable ALR land and a golf course. Having said that, there are two or three small pockets that aren’t ALR, and of course they’ve been torn up and built upon. And east of 172nd, it’s been a blitzkrieg.

- [Words and Pictures by Gord Goble]



All photos by Gord Goble, who lives in a home he rents within a half mile radius of all of the scenes in the images above.
Gord wrote an important early and rare bearish op-ed for the Vancouver Sun concerning the local RE bubble, and has been a vocal critic of the RE-bullish bias in local media.
Our thanks to Gord for the words and pictures above.

110 Responses to Gord Goble – South Surrey Building Blitzkrieg; Thoughts and Images

  1. So much for running out of land.

  2. Basement Suite

    “when interest rates bump up even a point and the mortgage defaults begin”

    Don’t hold your breath for a whopping 1% increase in interest rates. That would be absurdly high to the powers that be. How else do they keep the bubble inflating without free candy? And you know no one in power wants this to end. Amazing story and photos, thanks for that.

  3. i.see.debt.people.in.trouble

    In 5 years the area is gonna look like “the projects” due to the crappy quality and negligence in properly maintaining the houses/property

  4. Forgive my ignorance, but what is “ALR land”? (I’m not from BC)

  5. Kudos!, Mr. Goble.

    • Agree. That is terrific work. Great pictures too which I especially appreciate since I am nowhere even close to the action. Every time I hear you guys are paying 70% pretax income for shelter I just shake my head in disbelief. It seems beyond absurd anyone can live like that and still be in hock to banks. Best place on earth, my ass

      • Thanks, Farmer. Remember too, this is a hell of a long way from BPOE downtown. Perhaps an hour commute.

        Indeed, when we need food or gas, it actually takes us less time to hop over the border (we have lineup-skipping NEXUS cards) than to trek up to the nearest mall or major grocery store. We’re not exactly “central.”

      • No problem Gord. This has been my favorite of all articles on this site so far. And that was a tough call because there are great posts here every day. Hope to see another.

  6. Ironic that a developer would advertise “New England Style Homes” in the BPOE. If BC really is the BPOE, shouldn’t New England be building “British Columbia Style Homes”? I’ll be in NH, VT, ME and Upstate NY in June. I’ll take a picture of the signs if I see any. :)

    • For those of you unfamiliar with New England, let me show you one of the most expensive and prestigious housing areas in New England. Meet Wellesley, MA.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley,_Massachusetts

      Median household income is $125,814. Wellesley ranks first in the United States in percentage of adults who hold at least one college degree. In 2007, Wellesley High School was ranked 70th best public high school in the U.S. by U.S. News & World Report. Wellesley is also home to Wellesley College, the most prestigious private all-girl’s college in the US.

      Famous residents include: Steve Tyler (Aerosmith), Andrea Jung (CEO of Avon), Gregory Mankiw (Harvard econ professor and advisor to Romney), Daisuke Matsuzaka (Boston Red Sox), etc.

      Let’s take a look at their real estate:
      http://www.zillow.com/homes/wellesley,-ma_rb/#/homes/for_sale/Wellesley-MA/41610_rid/42.35042,-71.152427,42.248592,-71.404426_rect/11_zm/0_mmm/
      I spot an 1800sqft home on an 11000sqft lot for $585k.

      So, what would you prefer? A “New England-style” shoebox in South Surrey for $600k? Or a genuine classic home, on a spacious lot, in the most prestigious city in New England (and one of the top in the entire US), with genuinely great schools, and very well educated neighbors.

      I know what I would choose.

      • Renters Revenge

        And dont forget 30yr mrtgagee under 4% and income lower taxes.

      • Does the zoning allow me to tear down one of those classic older homes and replace it with an oversized, tasteless, shoddy piece of crap? Because then I would definitely be interested.

  7. Excellent post.

    My concern is what happens to a Province full of semi-skilled construction workers when the boom busts. Maybe they can go to the Alberta oil patch?

    • Yeah, that’s a big concern.
      Remember the figures from a recent post: About 9% of the workforce are in construction, and that’ll fall back to historic base of about 5%.
      Presuming there aren’t other jobs to step into (and we’d presume that, given what the RE bust will do to the economy), that’s a spike in unemployment of about 4 percentage points… massive.
      We’d presume that many of those workers (mainly the young and mobile) would flood to elsewhere in the country where there was work.
      And that’d effect our economy too.
      There are so many facets to the effects of an RE bust that it’s impossible to calculate the eventual net effect with even vague accuracy before the fact of the burst.
      This is all the consequence of the unwinding of the misallocation of resources that we go on about.

      • There will be a lot of angry unemployed construction workers going home to live in Mom and Dad’s basement, that’s for sure. As usual, it is the young workers who take the biggest hit and end up wasting a few years of their life sitting idle. They were just cannon fodder for the greed of others. When are some fools going to wake up and realize you can’t build an economy by wasting all your money on nice houses. You need factories for cripes sake. You have got to deploy capital into productive assets that are capable of generating wealth and economic activity. Boomers really make me ill (yes I am one, so I can say that). But they are such self serving pukes most of the time.

    • Renters Revenge

      This is a real concern. Drive through any of these sort of “developments” under construction and you will observe a sea of unskilled low pay workers that don’t have many options other than this type of work. If this work dries up it is going to get real messy.

      • By messy, do you mean they will all get an EI holiday? Hey, I wonder….if it gets bad enough will the Government extend unemployment benefits for two, three and four years like the American government did for its unemployed?

        No?

        And that is just one of the reasons our bursting bubble will hurt much more than it did South of us. We don’t have the ability to soften the economic blows here as the holder of the worlds reserve currency does.

        So when your EI runs out…you go straight to welfare here. You become a Provincial liability instead of a Federal one. I really don’t know why the Provinces are not more worried. In any case, BC’s budget is all but screwed pretty much for eternity because of the bubble there and the dynamics that will be coming into play soon.

      • Some of those workers are in fact illegal. So they may not show up in the statistics. The damage will be just as real though. Read Froogle Scott’s experience with contractors. In at least one circumstance, he felt pretty certain an employee was working illegally, and he became concerned about liability if he got injured on the job while on his property (being illegal, he wouldn’t have WCB coverage). And that was in 2005 or so, before things got really insane. I doubt Froogle’s experience is all that unique.

      • The jobs picture is not brightening either, by the way. Our 4th quarter GDP numbers are out and they are not good heading into a spring housing correction and looking anemic compared to US numbers. Consumption was up but the real question is, how much slower would growth be if consumption had declined as it will during a slowdown in housing? Again, I will restate that we cannot avoid a hard landing when real growth is this low already (and falling even as R/E peaks). The idiots who have pumped housing for the past two years really screwed us all. And now it shows.
        http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/canadian-economic-growth-slows-to-crawl

      • you are pretty low skilled. You will fit right in.

      • Make an effort to capitalize the first word of each new sentence. Then you get to come back and talk to us about skill levels.

      • Touché!

      • Do you spell Decency with a Capital D?

    • Alberta will be pleased. Labour surplus is good for business. And RE too, assuming all those workers can sell their BC homes and buy in Alberta.

      • Even a minority of these workers trying to liquidate their BC RE holdings will have further downside effects on the market.
        All part of the knock-on crescendo effects that will contribute to falling prices in the bust.
        Falling prices will beget falling prices; via many mechanisms.

      • A labour surplus is terrible for business. It means that plenty of people who used to work, no longer have enough income to shop in your stores. When consumption drops, every business suffers. Keep in mind, we are a consumption driven economy and so this affects most suppliers of goods and services in Canada. The drop in buying demand shows up in everything from haircuts to how often your car gets repaired. Even litigation drops and Lawyers get pink slips in recessions as there is not enough money flowing to maintain all the complaints that normally exist.

      • I really did not explain myself well in the previous post. What I was trying to say was that in a consumption driven economy, the costs associated with declining business revenues almost always outweighs the benefits of hiring employees for a few bucks cheaper or having a surplus of workers available. In the big picture, high unemployment is terrible for everyone. Tax revenues decline too. The knock on effects just never seem to end.

    • My concern is what happens to a Province full of semi-skilled construction workers when the boom busts.

      They will set up tents around Vancouver Gallery and protest capitalism.

    • What happens when the boom busts, Fish10?…

      “Repo Man. Not just a job… It’s an adventure!”

      In practical terms, there will be either a bonanza in late model, used pickup trucks… and/or a sudden dearth in the supply of campers…

    • Yes, that’s right. Also Sask where there is already an acute labor shortage. Keep watching the Statscan interprovincial migration numbers!

  8. Yes, but rising house prices are caused by shortages, right?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_estate

    Shortage of sanity, perhaps.

  9. If you ever find the material, I’d love to see an arial photo comparison across decades, or even spaced 5 years apart, for various Lower Mainland neighbourhoods that have seen a lot of development. (Actually, I’d love to see it for almost any Canadian city.) I think the differences between current photos and those that are 5 or more years old would be startling. Even here in Ottawa, Google Maps is completely useless for certain neighbourhoods. A friend of mine at work tried to show me where his house was, and his street was non-existent. In fact, his entire subdivision was just an open field on the satellite view. We were shocked at just how much was missing.

  10. Amazing. Great photography too. I particularly like the basketball kid/portapotty, and the foraging flamingoes.

  11. enjoying this blog for the last few months. I believe the average Vancouverite spends 90% of pre tax income on dwelling with an average household income of only $68,000.00…..how long can this last?I’m an ex-Vancouverite who truly enjoys this part of Canada but not at the expense of carrying a disproportionate amount of debt for a roof over my head thinking that I’m “wealthy.” You folks have taken a big gamble….

    • Crazy is the word. I have to agree Paul. If I spent more than 20% on shelter I would be sick. Some of the folks in Vancouver and burbs have just got to wake up one day and realize they have sacrificed their freedom and most of their financial resources in order to live in the best place on earth. I just find it so unbelievable I hardly have words to express the stupidity of the choices.

    • Only the new buyers suffer this fate. Most are holders from long enough ago that expenses are manageable. BUT, the value is based on someones being willing stepping into that lifestyle of house rich, cash poor.

      • The 70% figure for accommodation is an average I thought. Maybe I misread or am mixing up old data in my head with new so I will go back later and check. I know what you mean though. If you had bought a Van house in the 80′s as I did then you got it cheap in relative terms and you are just an observer to all this current craziness. It still does not make me feel good about what has happened to the city I used to love as a kid.

      • It’s the impact of prices being set on the margin. Just because one house in a hundred sells for 1.2 million, suddenly the entire neighborhood is “worth” that.

  12. A few random thoughts. During the Great Depression towns would post signs that read, “Out of work men keep moving, we can’t take care of our own.” The new signage in Vancouver will be, “Out of work real estate agents and contractors keep moving, we have too many already.”

    It’s funny that when talking about the pending RE bubble that the term ‘real estate’ is even used at all. There’s nothing real about it at all and realtors don’t deal in reality. Realtors sell you an image and collect a fee for doing very little work. The only reality is the mountain of debt.

  13. For the record, here’s a post that I put up at VCI and greater fool to tell people about Gord’s essay and photos:

    ‘South Surrey Building Blitzkrieg’
    Thoughts and Images by Gord Goble
    http://wp.me/pcq1o-3L0

    A very nice photo essay.
    Gord was concerned that this may be too “preachy”, but we say “Hallelujah, Brother!”.
    If you know the truth in a time when the majority don’t, it’s okay to shout it from the roof-tops, or, like a song-writer, to sing it again each night, in different variations.


    “I brought a song into this world
    Just a melody with words
    It trembles here before my eyes
    How can this song survive?

    I brought it to the tower of gold
    In my coat of many holes
    I came unarmed, they’ve all got knives
    How can this song survive? ”

    - Ron Sexsmith, ‘This Song
    (Now there is something about Vancouver that really is world class…, Ron plays here about once a year.)

  14. Renters Revenge

    This is not the only part of the LM where this sort of building frenzy is going on. Wiloughby/Clayton heights in surrey/Langley and Burke mtn in Port Coquitlam are two I’ve recently drove through. I’m sure there are more.

    • 4SlicesofCheese

      queensborough in New West area is being developed like crazy.
      Around 10 years ago my friends family bought a SFH in that area, at least that had a large yard and distance between houses.

      I visited recently and its rows and rows of townhouses packed like sardines in a can.

      • I can still remember when New West houses were dirt cheap. Nobody from Vancouver wanted to live there. It was like “oh God, I will be so far away and we have to commute to downtown..blah, blah, blah”

        I should have bought all the rentals that came up. Vendors were desperate to sell and often willing to carry. Who the hell needs banks if you can cut a deal with the owner anyway?

        My my. How thing change.

  15. Nice images of the boom Gord. Don’t forget to update us with a follow up bust report.
    These places should be 200-300K at the very most, the developer must be inflating prices to offset weak demand? Could be greed more than anything I suppose.

  16. that’s a pretty remote location to be snapping photos vreaa. Looks like you’re in the market to buy LOL

    • Gord Goble took the photos and wrote the text.
      Perhaps we’ll update the post to make that more obvious…
      (even though every other commenter seems to have ‘got it’).

    • 4SlicesofCheese

      yeah VREAA LOL

    • F1: Fancy meeting you here. Um…did you read *any* of the piece? Indeed, all you needed to do was glance at the title – nine short words – to know I’m responsible for the words *and* the pics. Direct comments this way.

  17. Great photo essay!!! Looks like a scene out of “The Burbs.”

  18. Jiminy Crickets! I didn’t see all the photos. A brand new 3-4 bedroom home for $535,000? You can’t get a teardown in Vancouver for anywhere close to this price. This is fantastic free advertising

    • you should totally buy a couple, can’t lose

    • Yes, stop at the bank on the way home on Monday. We’d like to know how much they approve you for. Brokers swear they can still do no-doc just fine.

    • F1: Agree with the other reponders. Come on down and buy a couple – you know, for “invesment” purposes. I can walk out my front door and flag down a half-dozen realtors for ya in less than five minutes.

      FYI, $535K gets you in the door. The door of what is essentially a 1600-sq-ft row house/future slum, slapped up in a matter of weeks, often late into the evening. No annoying side yard because they’re ramming these things together like sardines in a can, and a backyard approximately the size of a living room, with spectacular views into the kitchens of your closest neighbours. Of course, if you want amenities beyond the basics, you’re well into the $600,000-plus zone. But that shouldn’t matter to “real estate always goes up” believer like you, right?

    • Hey Formula1, did I even mention that Irish mansion hotel comes with an acreage and is located (damn) right in the middle of a major tourist region? Or that it is beachfront?

      Even a hobo cannot live on Wreck Beach for that price.

  19. My parents live in South Surrey and my dad is a former contractor. They toured a show home in a recently constructed, $1 million+ development and my dad was shocked at the shoddy construction and low-quality building materials.

    • This is an entirely separate lesson that few seem to grasp. You don’t want to buy new in a boom because quality plummets. Forget everything else about the situation, that alone should be enough to stay on the sidelines.

      • So true AG. Cardboard and plastic and particle board with chalk for walls and a stuffing of spun glass is called a modern house now. Half those guys building them have no training whatsoever either. They hit just a small fraction of the studs with the nail gun because they are so busy (and lazy too) while the inspectors cannot keep up and just rubber stamp it all to move the process along. Most of those new places will just fall over in the next big earthquake anyway. Just as well. We can start again fresh then.

      • For real! My spouse and I have been looking at condo rentals in Vancouver and we would not even rent, let alone buy, most of the newer ones. I can’t tell you the number of doors askew, floorboards creaking on uneven floors, and paper thin walls we have encountered.

        Not to mention the ridiculous floor plans–why do people need 2.5 bathrooms when there no space for a kitchen table? The condos seem to be designed for roommates or childless couples, not families.

  20. Steve Gilcrest

    You don’t mention that Surrey has 1000 people per month moving there.
    It is one of the fastest growing cities in Canada.

    The Lower Mainland in limited by the mountains, border and ocean and remains one of the most desirable places in the world to live. The California of Canada where you don’t have to shovel snow.

    The loses in Kelowna were with the speculators only. If you are buying a home to live in the price over the years will go up because they simply isn’t any more land in the Lower Mainland.

  21. Farmer:
    “So when your EI runs out…you go straight to welfare here. You become a Provincial liability instead of a Federal one.”

    They also become a liability for the community and for long-term economic growth. Young adults slipping into despair and depression, abusing substances like never before, families breaking up straining social services, and increasing law enforcement costs.

    As it goes on, they become long-term unemployed, and no longer of any value in the economy as their skills and contacts erode. Eventually, homeless, wet and hungry.

    If it gets to this point, we have will a big job on our hands, making them fit to work again. It will be very expensive in so many ways we can’t even imagine.

    God help this poor, exploited province.

    • Yes. Terrible but true. We often talk about all the money and how it is lost in a big correction. As if the dollars tell the whole story. They do not. It is a rare day we discuss the bigger social implications. The family breakups, divorces, bankruptcies, rising suicide rates, drug use and alcoholism. Boy, when it goes off the rails in a big correction do we ever see the raw side of life again. Maybe that is where we should be turning our attention now because that is the future if prices fall anything like an average 35%. You might think that social agencies would be gearing up in preparation too. Not so. Funding is threatened everywhere now. If anything, there will be big cuts to services. So there you go. You really do just swing in the breeze when the bust finally comes and nobody can help (as if they even care….they are all stressed out too).

      Like I often say…look what happened in America. That is our template too.

      • Beyond Debt

        I see the impact on social services in my volunteer work. The staff are spending so much time seeking or defending funding that it pulls them away from their main purpose, and burns them out too.

        Keep family and friends tight because they may be your only line of defense when the TSHTF. The broader social safety net is in tatters.

  22. In Vancouver, as long as interest rates continue to be low, people will continue to buy and prices will be semi-stable because:

    -Asians will continue to worship real estate since that’s all they know what to do. This has been the mindset for many years now.
    -mortgage payments will continue to be met. As long as you are working and have multiple wage earners in a household contributing, the payments will be made. We probably won’t see too many foreclosures as long as rates stay rock bottom.
    -there’s nothing else to do in Vancouver besides work to pay the mortgage. That’s what people have done and are accustomed to doing.
    -Immigrants continue to come. Many are used to hardship so working and working and working to pay for lodging and food in a fairly nice society is actually a pretty good life, comparatively speaking. Pretty small sacrifice to raise your kids in the so-called BPOE.

    I tend to be bearish, but there’s a lot of bull to overcome….

    • I’m pretty certain all that was said in the US five years ago.

    • Wildcard: Provincial debt. Enter tax increase and wage freezes in 3, 2, 1….

    • Hmm i come from a Chinese family. We’re not from BC but from my experience, immigrant familes love real estate but they also have a tendecny to panic where things happens and they dont understand why. Thye’ll freak out and exagerate the situtaltion.. and then fof course tell everyone thye know and create even more panic. Once a few people start to lose equity or can’t sell I’m pretty certain you’ll seee the HAM money dry up quickly.

  23. Housing, the buying and selling of real estate to one another, the furtherance of this bloated bubble, is key to this country’s GDP. Indeed, it currently comprises anywhere from a quarter to a third of Canada’s GDP.

    If this is true, it’s worse than the (now deflated) bubble in Ireland. It’s even worse than Spain! And Spain had many times larger demand from foreigners than anything ever experienced in Canada.

    Or perhaps the author meant “anywhere from a quarter to a third of Canada’s GDP” growth?

  24. The pictures are awesome! Canadian quality construction – woodchips and glue. Starting at mid $500k’s. Mold and pests are free…

  25. Smiles, whittles canines with a silver toothpick. Soon, precious, soon.

  26. These houses won’t be sold – even to the last fool standing. They’ll in fact be RENTED. No one is ever going to “pay off” one of these giant mortgages. And who’ll eventually go belly up?

    WE will, because the taxpayer, through CMHC (and likely various TARP-like schemes to recapitalize banks) taxes will rise, jobs will disappear, inflation in essentials will soar, paper currencies will depreciate and living standards will fall.

    But the DEBT will always be there.

  27. When BoC cuts the interests rates further, the party will go wild for a mile or two before crashing hard.

    <>
    http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/02/will-slowing-gdp-growth-drive-boc-to-cut-rates/

    • Basement Suite

      Yeah better cut the target rate to 0% Bank of Canada, 1% is an atrocity, and p.s. your daddy Bernanke is watching you.

    • Thank you ToL for posting that article. I had not yet seen it but can agree that David Madani is correct in asserting Canadian interest rates will fall as a result of the contracting economy. Here is a quote from that article that seems to say it all……..:

      “David Madani, Canada economist for Capital Economics, said housing trends point to a downtrend in Canada’s housing market.

      This includes a sharp drop in housing investment growth to an annualized 3.3% from close to 11% in the prior quarter.

      “We expect home resales and renovation to decline in the coming quarters, with falling house prices eventually discouraging new construction as well,” he said in the report. “We expect weaker housing activity to have serious negative implications for domestic demand growth, eventually prompting the Bank of Canada to cut interest rates.”

  28. you all should be thinking … this challenges the long-term viability of credit and money the banks and govt can create from nothing. look at how that is perverting everything in sight.

  29. Just wanted to add that I am so impressed with the writing skill and photography of this post, I would entertain the author’s proposal to create an ad spread for me and Pretzel’s new business venture: Happy Repo, the compassionate alternative.

  30. 4SlicesofCheese

    My friend who told me he just made his first mortgage payment, informed me prices are up from the month before.

    I dunno if he was joking or not, I am guessing not.

    • Hehe…4Slices: He should hang on for a few more months and SELL! A hell of an investment! Let’s see…factoring in realtor commissions, closing costs, moving costs, mortgage default penalties, any strata fees and taxes, and the fact that 90%-plus of his payments thus far will have gone to interest, he’ll have made…um…

      Oh, never mind… :-)

    • “his first mortgage payment,”

      He was expecting congratulations. I hope he got a new pen to soothe the cognitive dissonance. Liquidity: when a dam breaks some regions flood.

      • 4SlicesofCheese

        He knows my position on the housing market. He was half mocking me when he said he ruined his life by getting a mortgage.

        I he got a pretty modest place, pretty sure under 400k so hes not gonna lose his shirt or anything, but it will be an expensive exercise.

        Oh I just remembered, he told me his banker actually told him to do a lower downpayment which made him have to get CMHC insurance.

        The reasoning, to have some money in the bank to have a buffer in case an emergency happens.

        I was fucking speechless.
        How about saving more money before you can buy, oh wait prices are skyrocketing now.

  31. “Indeed, it currently comprises anywhere from a quarter to a third of Canada’s GDP.”

    False.

    • I was wondering about this one too…

    • This figure is probably accurate if half of personal consumption expenditure is housing related (ie. 50% / 2) plus residential construction at 7% equally about a third of GDP. Vancouver is reasonably twice this figure at 2/3 of GDP.

  32. In 2010, the CMHC stated that housing accounts for one-fifth of the GDP. According to a recent StatsCan chart at Ben Rabidoux’s Economic Analyst, “the percentage of GDP dervived from housing-related industries” is 27%. I have seen numerous other estimates in that ball park.

    Granted, I am no economist. I take in what I read, consider the sources, and try my level best not to exagerate anything to further my arguments. In this case, consider that Canada’s GDP is slowing (as reported in all the major news outlets over the past few days), while at the same time real estate prices in the prime markets have hit new peaks, the residential building boom in many areas (such as the area I focused on) rages forward unchecked, etc, etc.

    Don’t forget that when we talk housing, we’re not simply refering to the buying and selling of residences, but all the industry that swirls around it. Spend a few days in neighbourhoods like mine and you come to realize just how many people are employed, just how much money is being moved around, just how much marketing and advertising is involved, just how many realtors there are, etc, etc. Do not underestimate how much this mania, this big, bloated bubble, this unsustainable yet non-stop construction and marketing and lending and buying and selling and reno craze means to this otherwise faltering economy.

    • 27% – that is insane!

      In Spain it was 17% at the peak and there was more construction than in Germany, Italy and Great Britain combined – do you realize how huge that was? Spanish economy is roughly the same size as Canada. Gremany+Italy+UK combined are 5 times bigger!

      And Canada trumps all that!?!?

  33. Steve Gilcrest

    In Europe and the US they would give you a mortgage if you could breath and sign a piece of paper. The majority of Canadians are properly qualified for their mortgage. For most if the bubble burst they would be keeping their home. The ones with the maxed out 10+ credit cards and addition debt, yes they will lose their home. One has to laugh at the ones who worry about a quarter point rise in the interest rate. Perhaps we are due for a purge. Simple financial planing that always works: Spend less than you earn.
    In the 80′s when the prime rate went up to 22% most still keep home and made money. The fly now, pay later crowd did lose their their claim to title and so they should. There may be a few bargains around if people believe that the price will continue to climb as has in the past. If some buys today, within their means including a future raise in interest and with the intent to hold as their home for the next ten years they will be ok.

    • Right. Todays home buyers cannot seem to recognize a top when it is hitting them in the face like a frozen Mackerel (that is a fish).

      Time seems to be the issue. Buyers want what they want right now. Today. They don’t seem to appreciate that mortgages run for 25, 30 and 35 years though or that business cycles (including recessions) run for much, much shorter time periods.

      I think if they understood this then fewer would commit when prices were peaking. If only the simple concept of “low rates mean high home prices’ would sink in they might reconsider.

      Or if they could understand that rising rates translate to falling home prices.

      Even small interest rate increases can have oversize impacts on home prices and investor psychology. The Bank of Canada made an attempt to slow home price growth not so long ago by raising rates but the effect did not stick. The realtor cabal that pumps us all full of joy and lollipops overwhelmed the BoC attempts at throwing cold water on a horny couple.

      Seems those realtors have more power over the masses of hysterical first time buyers who long for the bragging rights to the best-nest in the sky. More money too judging by all the advertising they did.

    • These pretzels are making me thirsty

      “In Europe and the US they would give you a mortgage if you could breath and sign a piece of paper. The majority of Canadians are properly qualified for their mortgage.”

      Okay……….(didn’t bother to read the rest)

    • Nice troll, Steve.

  34. Pingback: Real Estate “What a Difference 6 month makes” PART 1 : MARCH 2012 |

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