“This is hilarious! As a New Yorker (professional) now at my firms offices in Toronto (till the summer) and having been to Vancouver numerous times, let me say comparing Vancouver to NY is about the most preposterous claim I have heard in this lifetime and the next. I mean despite the weather Vancity ain’t even half of what Seattle is. And trust me no way Calgary (which I also know well) even at its worst is anything approaching the abysmal city of Cleveland. Frankly, Toronto is the only city that has some semblance of NY flair, power and commercial/corporate muscle in Canada, but Montreal is truly Canada’s only international city even with the horrible weather and all. And really they have to pay better in Vancouver — I mean how can you have such house prices on the MacDonald’s salary they pay out there!? That is just criminal!”
- comment by ‘Demrep’ Feb 2012, in response to ‘The real problem with Vancouver’s outrageous house prices’, Maclean’s, 1 Jun 2011
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- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
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- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
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- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
- “What’s the worst that can happen? You can’t pay your mortgage, so sell your house! No fear.”
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Yep, and I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard the BPOE-to-San Franciso comparison. Psimply psychotic, especially if you include San Jose/Silcon Valley.
Thank you for posting this. Everytime I see a comparison of Vancouver to NYC I just shake my head in amazement. They are not even CLOSE to being alike. Must be all the weed people are smoking out here that’s giving them delusions of grandeur.
“Best place on Earth”, “World Class City”, “Paris on the Pacific”. (OK, I just made that one up, nice ring though and shows how easy it is.)
These designations are only meaningful if other people call you that. Shouting it at the top of your lungs until people kind of shrug and walk away muttering “Yeah, you’re world class alright” doesn’t make it so!
“Paris on the Pacific”
I hope this will catch on.
If there is a Paris on the Pacific movement, Vancouver needs a billionty more sidewalk cafes in that case. Sorry café, that is.
agreed. Vancouver is in a league of it’s own. Let’s drop the lame comparisons
You do realize it will soon enough be famous for one of the biggest price corrections in the western world to go along with its fame at having one of the largest relative price increases?
Why do I even bother. The bigger they are…….truth in that.
in econ textbooks of the 22nd century beside ‘dutch tulips’ will be ‘vancouver real estate’
rusty/f1 shut your cake hole
Fair enough that is your opinion.
But question what do you think of Toronto’s real estate prices.
Do you think they are in a bubble?
Cause if they burst, it will have an effect throughout Canada.
F1, we agree again! It truly is a league of its own.
Like Triple A baseball. Fun and occasionally pretty to look at (when there isn’t a rainout), but to compare it with the majors is indeed lame.
ACTUALLY
while Seattle has a Major League Team
Vancouver is home to a Single “A” Short-Season team – we aren’t even regular ball, we’re short season – specifically due to the terrible attendance when it rains – which is always.
and we lost the Canadians once when they WERE AAA – moved to Sacremento – the BC Libs tried to tear down Nat Bailey stadium to make way for the olympic development that is riley community centre now and probably also for gawdy condos for communists to flip
Ouch.
As a cardiologist once told me, it’s nothing a little more contrast can’t solve.
Lived in NYC for 6 years, Dallas for 4 and Toronto for 3.
It is laughable. The smugness and insecurity of comparing Vancouver to any of these cities. It is a nice tourist town (only certain parts).
Lots of neighbourhoods such as East Van, areas around Kingsway, Colllingwood are really dirty with awful houses and infrastructure.
Overall not even 2nd tier. That’s it.
The natural setting is stunning. The building stock is depressingly homogenous. Very few cultural repositories, partly due to age and location I guess. Not very big. Relatively clean. Grey at times, colorful at times. Very fresh air. Seawall is nice.
Some time ago (maybe a link from this blog?) I read a great critique of listings of the World’s Best Cities. The author was commenting on how these lists always include uber-clean, smaller, safe and expensive cities such as Zurich and Copenhagen and Vancouver and Sydney. The author made the point that these cities have none of the constant pressure and grit and churning of such places as NYC, London and Sau Paulo. It is the grit and churning that many of us love, it is dangerous and unexpected and we feel alive inhabiting these Cities.
Yes I have to agree – NYC / Vancouver a ridiculous comparison. I think parts of Vancouver could be compared to some high end leisure towns (Honolulu? Monaco?), and other parts could be compared to Tacoma or Oakland.
I was curious to go back to the source of the comment and look at what specifically was being being reacted to.
“…Prices are more reasonable the further east one goes, and if the ultimate choice is between living in a larger cheaper place in Calgary or a smaller more expensive one in Vancouver, there will always be those who will choose Vancouver simply because it is worth it. Just as there are those who choose New York over Cleveland”
When they were advertising those “affordable micro-lofts” and saying that its very common for people in new york to live in 500sqf i was screaming at my tv. Vancouver is not new york, we shouldn’t have to live like that. The geographic similarities of manhattan and vancouver aside, they are nothing alike.
+1
Watch Rumble in the Bronx and look for mountains.
And BC Place.
I haven’t seen a city yet where some won’t trade space for location, in the extreme. I myself would prefer a larger space for more books and artifacts, but a love for bucolic surroundings, short public transit commutes and good schools traps me here — HELP ME!
People in NY don’t have to live like that, either; they can always commute from Godknowswhere, NJ, where housing is cheap.
It’s (always?) worth comparing with Toronto: Only really became Canada’s first city with the rise of the PQ in Quebec and subsequent relocation of some major head offices from Montreal. Consolidated its gains with the amalgamation of the Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver stock exchanges. Almost lost a lot of them last year in the attempted takeover by the London Stock Exchange. Worries, with the decline in manufacturing, the boom(ish) in energy and the current federal political landscape, that the center of gravity will shift west to Calgary, including head offices with their coveted, lucrative jobs. Pros: Canada’s #1 urban agglomeration. Enviable “New York run by the Swiss” international reputation. Same time zone as NYC. Cons: Recent habit of voting like fenceposts for Liberals, provincial and federal, means starvation of funds from higher levels of government, no matter which flavour; being bled of cash to buy votes in the hinterland.
None of these involve being, or being near, a great place to play. None involved great weather. New York, London, Tokyo aren’t either. They involve wealth creation. SF has Silicon Valley, LA, TYO, NYC etc speak for themselves, and the other world playgrounds for the rich tend to be located close to where the wealth gets created (or at least controlled from).
Vancouver’s current signature advantage seems to be that China is booming, its rich aren’t comfortable leaving their money in the country — even though its booming, the USA isn’t very welcoming right now, and Canada is. Four advantages, any one of which, if it turned, would end the money flows, and none of which is under BC’s control.
Other interesting comparisons might be:
The Okanagan – wasn’t this recently touted as where all Canadians desired to retire? Fail.
New Orleans – Situated at the mouth of a giant economic catchment, thrived on trade for centuries. Fail.
Miami – Gateway to the USA from Latin America, and vice versa. Also a significant port, and super leisure activities. I thought they’d weather the US downturn better because of the Latin American connection. Fail.
Vancouver, Toronto, and New York are all grossly over-rated. I wouldn’t live in any one of those cities. Vancouver is a beautiful city in a lot of ways due to the scenery, but I look at it as paradise lost. It takes you an hour and a half to get anywhere.
Vancouver bugs me. But after 6 months in Cairo the place looks pretty sweet again. Then you get the sticker shock and you say F##K!!, I just can’t win. Debtless in Poco may be on to something. Finding a nice little hideaway with a log house and not too many people. Got to go where there is less competition for space and lots of room for a garden.
Woah, interior BC is miserable. Trailers and a fire pit. Wind, snow, cracked windshields, tree sap, stinky little lakes, bugs, best advice for the masses is to stay within five kms of mall or you risk befriending a hobo who sells his own bathtub cheese.
OK, now I REALLY know you are on to something big. You are trying to throw us all off the trail,….maybe even make us think you are staying in town. Meanwhile you corner the fresh-frozen gopher market on the sly. Caught you!
Is it really necessary to post an “ad hominem” attack on Canada’s cities?
When the “pro hominem” argument has been used incessantly as an argument for ongoing market strength, yes.
Vancouver does inspire some really off-the-charts boosterism in some people, but in my (anecdotal) experience, this comes from a very specific type. These are people who come to Vancouver as young adults from some small place on the Prairies. For them, Vancouver is the biggest, most exciting place they have ever lived, and they come here at an age where one’s life starts to open up with possibilities. And let’s be honest, on a nice summer’s day, Vancouver is pretty spectacular, which helps with the reality distortion field.
But I have to say I’ll be really glad when all this financial distortion and collective delusion has blown over, so that we can get back to real life. Vancouver is a nice, third-tier city, I think comparable to Portland. Nice setting, pretty good urban planning, but a really crap climate for half the year.
And if we all work hard, and stop waiting for our houses to make us rich, we might one day be a second-tier city like Seattle or Toronto. But we aren’t there yet.
I think what really bothers me about the Vancouver vs. ___________ (insert somewhere else here) is why compare at all? To me, that’s the height of insecurity. Why can’t we just be Vancouver? There are positive and negative things about all cities so I wish we would just focus on being what we are and not how much we’re ‘like’ somewhere else.
If a comparison is about realistic aspirations, then I’d say it’s healthy. Vancouver would be a better place to live if we could be more like ______ (insert name of city where you can earn world-class professional wages). But if a comparison illustrates delusional thinking, as in “we have world-class living costs, therefore we must be world-class”, then maybe not so much….
Hey John,
While I don’t disagree with your ‘aspiration’ comment, unfortunately that’s not what’s happening. It’s the delusional comparisons that get to me. It’s one thing to aspire to sing like Whitney Houston could but it’s quite another to suggest that you are in the same league as her because you’re both sopranos.
Yeah, more than anything, i’d just like to get on with my life. I’d like to be able to buy a home, without it being like diving into Nortel at $100/share. And I’d like to be in a place that’s not going through some kind of adolescent identity crisis about it’s place in the world.
+1