“A close acquaintance of mine lives in the Vancouver suburb of Surrey (an area that respected blogger Garth Turner recently predicted would see a 30% correction if the national market tanks 15%).
A staunch housing bear himself, my close acquaintance rents the house he is currently living in. The home was recently assessed at a value of $450,000 and the landlord is the quintessential poster child of the over-extended, amateur Vancouver landlord.
Owning her own home in Coquitlam (another Vancouver suburb) plus two rental homes in Surrey, she constantly struggles to make ends meet.
Recently a spat of repairs were required on the house my acquaintance lives in.
First, the garage door sustained damage. When arrangements were made for an assessment from a repairman, the landlord asked my friend to pay the $80 charge (which would be deducted from the next month’s rent) because she no longer had a credit card.
Next, the dishwasher failed. A plumber was called and he replaced the garburator (a repair that had been put off since summer) as well as the dishwasher. And while the landlord arranged a cash payment for these (delivering the money to my friend to give to the plumber on the day the work was to be done), the plumber later confided the landlord had been in tears on the phone as they discussed the best place to secure the ‘lowest’ price on a new dishwasher.
I’m sure you won’t be surprised to learn that all repairs seemed to be “under the table” with no apparent HST tax paid.
There are other repairs that are required at the house but are “on hold” because the landlord admits to cash flow problems.
The landlord has told my friend that the house was a gift she received from her parents over 13 years ago.
So does that mean the property is mortgage free?
In the 3 years my friend has been at this house, he has accommodated 3 requests to have the property assessed for HELOC applications. In the most recent visit (always by the same assessor), the assessor let slip that he had also been doing the same on her two other properties. She has maxed out the available equity on this house (about six years ago this money was used to purchase the second rental home), the second rental home and her own house.
Now, with TD Bank expecting a market correction of 12%, where will this landlord wind up?
This landlord (not unlike many others in the Lower Mainland) have been using their homes as personal ATM machines. And the money they have taken out against their properties is spent.
This particular landlord struggles to maintain basic repairs on the homes and is in a personal financial situation where she no longer has access to credit cards.
What will a 12% drop in property values mean to this landlord?
On the one Surrey home (assessed value $450,000), a 12% correction is a loss in $54,000 in mortgaged asset value. A 15% drop translates to a loss of $67,500. If we were to realize Garth Turner’s prediction of a 30% drop – the loss on this house would be $135,000.
Without continued price appreciation, not only is the HELOC ATM most assuredly closed to her for future withdrawals but any major repair or incident will be devastating to family finances.
If the other two homes are of equal value, she is facing a total drop of $162,000/$202,500/$405,000 in asset value (based on drops of 12%/15%/30%), none of which is equity. Are the banks going to blindly renew mortgages on these three properties when she could be underwater by almost half a million dollars on all three combined?
At what point does the straw break the proverbial camel’s back?
How many more are in similar circumstances?
Without a dramatic turnaround in the economy, how can these people avoid any other fate besides default, bankruptcy and foreclosure?
Anecdotal evidence suggests there is a strong likelihood that a higher percentage of Greater Vancouver homeowners are in this situation vis-a-vis the greater mortgage market than there were subprime mortgage holders in the US mortgage market.
A 12% or 15% correction does not sound like much, but given the dynamics of the Vancouver market it could be devastating.”
- anecdote and analysis from villagewhisperer at ‘Whispers from the Village at the Edge of the Rainforest’, 29 Dec 2011. [Thanks, whisperer. Hat-tip to 'Bailing in BC']
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Latest Anecdotes:
- Basement Suite In East Vancouver Sells For $590K
- “A lawyer knocked on the door of my rented house on the Westside of Vancouver this afternoon, and offered me $2.4M. He was going door to door asking if anyone wanted to sell.”
- UBC Condo Selling Pressure?
- Sticky Price Seller Shoots Self In Foot, Slowly – “$488K, listed for 13 months, negative cash flow, unable to come down in price at all due to “circumstances”.”
- Even More Bubble Warnings And Mentions In The Mainstream Media. A Whole Flurry, In Fact.
- West-Side Detached Specifics – “The cycle of buy / tear-down / build / sell is not completing. There are really no sales of new-builds.”
- Vancouver ‘Hotel Condo’ Prices Plummet
- “Crazy Land” – 9% of the working population employed in construction.
- Vancouver’s Too Expensive For Entrepreneurs – “Last night during a meeting we realized that of five, only two of us aren’t thinking about leaving the city in the next year or two.”
- BC Budget: Taxpayer Debt To Support The Construction Industry – “Every young person out there today understands the challenges of getting into the housing market.”
- “Many of my boomer contemporaries think they will “live off the real estate equity” forever.”
- Vancouver – “Where my friends/mom/society/tourists think I live; Where I actually live.”
- Ben Rabidoux, ‘Where We Stand’ – “While it may be too early to call a definitive peak in Vancouver, things aren’t looking good.”
- “I am amazed financial gurus seldom suggest buying a second property. We live in a real estate hot spot. If you buy a house or condo with 25% down and it appreciates by 25%, you have doubled your money.”
- “Comparing Vancouver to NY is about the most preposterous claim I have heard in this lifetime and the next.”
- “I know a lady who spent more time haggling over the price of a table and chairs that was on sale at the Brick than she did buying her condo.”
- Discussion with Tom Davidoff – “A huge fraction of near retirement Vancouverites must have 75%+ of their wealth in home equity.”
- Tom Davidoff’s ‘Fantastic, Pragmatic Lecture’ – “Vancouver RE price future is uncertain, with clear downside risk. Prices could, absolutely, fall 50%. But long run growth is easy to envision, and Vancouver will never be cheap.”
- PostCardsFromTheBlastRadius #15 (2012Teaser) – “Oki CourtOrdereds… LookLikeThis…”
- “You’ve Got A Bubble, Canada” Article #47 – Bloomberg – “Canada Housing Poised for ‘Severe’ Drop”
- What happens to vocal housing bulls after a RE bubble pops?
- Kelowna Foreclosures – “Realtor is worried the number of foreclosures will bring the overall market down, hurting anyone who wants to sell their home; now up against something they didn’t see coming.”
- Buy The Dip! – “There’s yet more indication investors are finally getting the break they need to beef up their portfolios, with the B.C. Realtor association confirming a near-8 per cent dip in the value of properties sold during the first month of the year.”
- ‘The Economist’ Poll – “Are Canadian house prices a bubble waiting to burst?”
- “At coffee break today a guy was reading an ad for one of the housing lotteries. We all looked at the choices (a few houses, condo in North Van, or $1.8M cash). Not a single person would take the cash. Most agreed housing would go up.”
- “I’m ecstatic. My boomer parents called today to say they’ve finally sold our long-time house in cow town. Assessed $490k, listed last fall at $560k, no bite; re-listed at $490k last week, sold at $480k.”
- Open House Investigative Reporting – “He said he considered buying this for the lot value, because lot prices are still going up. However, he also said that he noticed many new/newer houses are not selling at all. This confuses him.”
- ‘The Most Overpriced Housing Market In The Developed World’
- Mayor’s ‘Housing Affordability Task Force’ – “Vancouver must be a city where our children can afford to live and raise their families.”
- “The house and lane house were empty and converted into 7 or 8 suites between the two. The owner couldn’t meet me on time as he was showing one of his other six properties.”
- Tsur Sommerville, Time Machine – “Let’s not let the housing market be driven by a wave of cheap and easy-to-access money.”
- Vancouver Realtor Pam Allen – “Since October, it was like someone turned off the tap. It became absolutely dead.”
- “I’m a Realtor and it’s not a buyers market at all. Based on Vancouver’s historic benchmark price chart I would be hitting the sell button asap.”
- “When I asked why the owner is selling, the realtor said the owner “Has too many properties, wants to get rid of some”…”
- “My wife and I could never buy into a life of servitude to a bank. We just aren’t built to borrow money and don’t consider life as a one track job in order to buy a building.”
- Philadelphia Church of God Trumpets: “Falling house prices is an idea that many Canadians laugh at. Americans laughed too before America’s bubble burst.”
- Avoiding Vancouver, Recent Stories
- “She tells me that she isn’t worried because the prices cannot drop below what she paid.”
- Maclean’s Interviews Two Vancouver Realtors – “Remember: in real estate, people who don’t track the short-term ups and downs tend to do great over the long-run.”
- Canadian Business Housing “Crash!” Cover

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On the upside, when things go bad, she can list all three and triple her chances of selling one property quickly to realize some cash. Oops, but they’ll have tenants and deferred maintenance, so they won’t show too well. Oops, but she doesn’t have any equity anyway. It would still be in her best interests to sell one rather than let the bank foreclose and tack on all its fees to her amount owing, but she wouldn’t have the cash for commission and closing costs.
“but she wouldn’t have the cash for commission and closing costs”
…And in addition, if her equity’s already maxed out, if the market drops even a smidge, the buyer’s offer may not even be high enough to cover outstanding mortgage and HELOC balances… Which could mean she’s stuck with the property(ies) until foreclosure/bankruptcy.
It’s not necessarily terrible for the tenant– any urgent repairs/maintenance can be done out-of-pocket and taken off the next month’s rent, and it’s relatively difficult to uproot a tenant with a lease.
Mind you, if I was a tenant and I didn’t have a long lease (or wasn’t certain if my lease would remain valid in the event of a foreclosure), this would be my warning sign that I should be looking for a new home– you never know when a problem with one of her houses could lead to a cascade of foreclosures through all of them.
This is the exact situation I find myself in. We’ve been renting a townhouse in surrey for 2 years. The landlord was forced to sell as I suspect they are not cash flow positive. The place was on the market for 8 months with a 25K reduction before selling. When we were informed of its sale and told to vacate, the landlord was shocked to learn that they owed us a free months rent. (I guess the real estate agent didn’t bother to inform them that this was part of their closing costs) They said that they would have to wait until the place sold as they were cash poor, and the unit had been bleeding them dry.
So here I find myself having to move, not because of my own financial mistake, but because of that of the landlord.
I think we should probably stop referring to Garth Turner as a “respected blogger” I appreciate his perspective and he’s the one who introduced me to the reality of the housing bubble. But his writing style is vulgar and full of unessecary hyperbole. Plus, he now has a vested interest in the bubble hype, selling survival gear and offering his own services as a financial consultant. His perspective is correct, but his methods leave something to be desired. While he makes good points, I don’t think he’s very well respected outside of his own cult and calling him “well respected” only serves to discredit this blog, which I do believe is well respected. The editor of vreaa is certainly much more professional about his/her approach to the discussion.
I think that everyone has a perspective and an opinion. You do not have to read what you do not like.
Sounds a bit immature to be so judgmental. Actually laughable that you would chose to diss one blog and suck up to another
A+B isn’t equaling C here. If this landlord is using home as ATM then why does she have cash flow problems?
Let’s file this one as another “I know a guy who knows a guy” story
Duh, because the ATM (equity) has run dry from overuse. I really look forward to dumbasses like this landlord losing everything – yes, I think they deserve to pay for their financial mismanagement as nobody held a gun to their head to buy that first, second, or even third home.
the post must be from Garth himself! He needs to sell a few more books.
The World’s Housing Bubble
Richard Florida
Dec 16, 2011
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America has suffered through a housing crisis for the past several years, with the average price falling 30 percent, and much more than that in some areas. So it may come as a surprise to many Americans that much of the world still appears to be in the throes of its own housing bubble. The chart below, from the Global Housing Monitor produced by the International Monetary Fund’s Prakash Loungani, offers some perspective.
Housing prices have been falling in about half of the countries, but they’re rising on the other half.
The next chart shows housing prices to be exceeding two of their key “anchors” – the housing price to income ratio and the housing price to rent ration – in many of these countries. While housing price to income ratios are below the average levels in America, they are well above in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Australia, Canada, Spain, the U.K., Norway, Denmark and Sweden. This is even the case for crisis-prone countries like Italy and Greece.
Canada tops the list on the housing price to rent ratio. Housing prices are significantly overvalued on this score (being driven perhaps by the high global demand for housing in Vancouver and to a lesser extent Toronto). The housing price to rent ratio also significantly exceeds its historical norm in Norway, New Zealand, Belgium, Australia, France, Finland, Spain, the U.K., the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Ireland and several other countries.
Lougani notes that these indicators are a “very broad brush” and that there are “myriad country-specific factors that influence house prices.” Still he cautions when these two key ratios are “above their historical averages, economic theory suggests that declines in house prices may still be in the offing.”
We know how painful the housing crisis has been in the U.S. With the evolving Euro crisis and continuing global economic instability, it’s scary to note that a significant global housing crisis may be in our future.
Keywords: Housing Prices, Housing Crisis, Recession