“We are in our late 20s, take home 120k a year in safe gov’t jobs, and have absolutely no reason to get into this market right now.”

Posted on 15 December 2011 | 55 Comments

“The wife and I are in our late 20s, take home 120k a year in safe gov’t jobs, and have absolutely no reason to get into this market right now. The market here in Vancouver is silly, and renting 1/2 a house in North Delta that is walking distance from the wife’s office for $800 a month inclusive of all bills, wouldn’t even match the condo fees/property taxes of a 1000 sq/f box down the road.
Over the last year since coming back to Canada from an extended expat stint in Asia, I have def. noticed condos dropping in price, particularly in New West, Coquitlam, and parts of Burnaby.
Interestingly, a contact of mine who owns one of the larger realty companies in West Van, recently divested his ownership, sold his West Van house/sports car, packed the family up, and left for SoCal.
The smart money is leaving. My money is going into a TFSA/RRSP/growing a 3rd income from a small biz.”
- Zeus at greaterfool.ca 9 Dec 2011 9:51pm

This entry was posted in 10. Demoralized Renters?, 14. Social Effects of the Boom and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

55 Responses to “We are in our late 20s, take home 120k a year in safe gov’t jobs, and have absolutely no reason to get into this market right now.”

  1. space889 | 15 December 2011 at 9:08 am | Reply

    First impression, another pair of leeches sucking on the public teats for all they can. I think we will be seeing a lot more negativity towards those who got it all – secure jobs, defined benefit pensions backed by the taxing powers of government of Canada, higher than average wage, lower stress and workload, fewer working hours, etc, etc.

    • chubster | 15 December 2011 at 10:42 am | Reply

      i think it is hard to blame individuals for playing the hand they’re dealt. the fix is smaller govt – which also aligns with philosophy of more personal freedom and responsibility. in canada that’s a really tough sell. realistically just have to live paying that premium or move. and they wonder why business isn’t more dynamic. ok … going to potentially step in it with this … too many canadians (i am one) are just hardwired to socialism. they think if the govt doesn’t provide, a safety net for example, the ‘nice’ society disappears. newflash. it doesn’t. people are nice not because someone says they have to be. if it’s not voluntary, it’s coercion – coercion and slavery aren’t that far apart.

      • formula1 | 15 December 2011 at 11:07 am |

        this “social safety net” is what separates us from the 3rd or 2nd world countries…or even the US for that matter. It is evidence of a caring society. Most Canadians believe in this “nice society” and are proud to live in a country that cares for it’s sick, young, old, dying – or those that are just going through a tough stretch. We have too many bureaucrats and middle managers, but the programs I pay taxes for are good programs; needed programs, and I have no problem with paying for them. If you don’t believe in them perhaps you’re living in the wrong country chubster

      • space889 | 15 December 2011 at 11:50 am |

        no it’s not the individuals fault, heck personally I want part of the gravy train/honeypot. However as economy deteriorates, taxes rise, personal income being crimped, I think more and more of the average joe in the private industry is going to turn on the public sector employees, rather than the actual underlying causes because blaming people is always easier.

        As for social programs, I have no problem with most of them as long as they are delivered efficiently with proper check and balances against fraud. Unfortunately with government, bureaucracy, excessive mgmt, wastes, corruption, etc are to expected.

      • keeperofthederp | 15 December 2011 at 2:12 pm |

        @chub

        sort of agree

        i don’t really see the ‘nice society’ in vancouver anymore

        all i see are real estate humpers, hipsters from ontario, longboarders from quebec, and a whole shwack of newbs.

      • keeperofthederp | 15 December 2011 at 2:17 pm |

        @space

        underlying issue is labor v capital

        private sector workers, whose rights and options seem to be on the constant decline, are lashing out at those out of reach of corporations’ ambitions: to have one person doing all work a the company for free.

        we’ve already seen the americans lash out at unionized workers.

        what they are essentially lashing out at is their own stupidity.

        for some reason, labor organizing is to be discouraged and referred to as socialistic or parasitic, yet capital (being as it always is – highly organized) can orchestrate whatever it wants; like say a vast corporate media campaign against well compensated public sector employees with benefits. (re: corporate ambition to have a workforce operating at maximum productivity, ie: one person doing all jobs for min. wage or free, if possible – send for more donut jockeys from manilla – canadians ‘just don’t want these jobs’ etc.)

      • Renters Revenge | 15 December 2011 at 3:45 pm |

        Chubster, I really appreciate your comments on this forum. And I completely agree with your comment here that Canadians are hardwired for socialism. Canadians are completely deluded about how coercive our form of government is and, unfortunately, we like to differentiate ourselves from USA by being more socialist than they are. We sing “true north glorious and free” but liberty is in practice a secondary or perhaps even tertiary value. I expect this to change in the coming financial shakedown.

      • jesse | 15 December 2011 at 5:30 pm |

        Canadian and US GDP growth on PPP have been closely aligned over time, yet one is purported to be more socialist than the other. Find a guy who lived in Eastern Europe pre-1989 and ask about socialism. Most will say that Canada ain’t that bad.

      • keeperofthederp | 16 December 2011 at 12:30 am |

        i just find anytime someone trots out the `S` word they`ve usually been drinking from the same crazy-well as mrs. p..

      • Robert Dudek | 16 December 2011 at 5:23 am |

        So what you are saying is that we should be less like prosperous peaceful and egalitarian Norway, Sweden and Denmark, and more like the disaster zones known as the US and UK. Thanks for that advice.

      • chubster | 16 December 2011 at 9:32 am |

        this was going to be a touchy one and certainly going off the RE thread. one has to be very careful concluding that people behave well only if they are forced to. my experience is it simply is not true. quite the opposite. they do so because they freely want to and often will do so in spite of everything else. the vast majority of folks who haven’t been abused in some way are decent. left to their own inclinations, they will act that way. your govt is not your society – this is what i wish more canadians could understand. otoh, trouble is seeded to the extent that advancement is not based on merit and people are forced to do things they do not want to. will only add “the law” (bastiat) is a pretty short read. can’t find anything to disagree with in it.

      • Michelle | 16 December 2011 at 1:30 pm |

        They make 120k / year between the two of them, so roughly 60k/year each. That is hardly an inflated salary. I for one am glad to pay a fair wage to those who deliver public services for the work that they do.

        And speaking of “sucking the teat,” I am guessing you have no problem visiting your doctor, driving on our roads, calling government help lines, sending your children to school, or using any number of the myriad of daily services that public servants make possible.

        So remember that one day when you need to dial 9-1-1. Or would you be willing to give up such privilege so you can live according to your principles?

    • Absinthe | 15 December 2011 at 12:10 pm | Reply

      Why assume they’re not being paid worth and that they’re leeching teats? (An odd metaphor, that.) There are lots of government services and employees I value: fire, police, education, research, planning – and of course the crews who fix the potholes and the conservation officers on hand to capture bears that get loose in the downtown core. I am glad for the vast majority of those who make our lives safer, more comfortable, provide us resources, and keep us more secure whether or not we can personally pay for it.

      On the working conditions of the public sector – well, I want humane work hours for everyone. Although I’m private sector, I have a public life of volunteerism and community, so I’m not resentful of reasonable work hours. And I’ve worked in non-union private sector companies with group pension plans: it’s possible for some, it’s just not The Most Profitable Thing for the company. That some systems exist that value their employees hardly makes me angry: I try to run my own business with similar balance and consideration for the long term. The fact that there are jokers who don’t invest in their human resources frustrates my daily life: think of all those awful money saving voice-jail systems with a bored and untrained employee on the other end following a script that only responds to keywords and only answers the most generic, painfully obvious, questions.

      And it’s not like my taxes don’t buy me anything. Libraries and public schools give me a literate society, and protective legislation and public services mean I’m not in a society filled with neighbours fighting at a base, survival level. I do a lot of local volunteer work, and we’re always close to the edge in fundraising and donations – I am REALLY glad that charity is not necessary for many core things, because in local services it often feels like we’re trying to make a King sized bed with a Twin sized sheet.

      It’s not us & them. Both public and private have down and upsides.

      • space889 | 16 December 2011 at 9:42 am |

        I’m not saying I think all public sector employees are leeches at the teat of public milk cow. However when I hear people saying I’m making $100K+ as a family with both people working for the government, it’s hard to not think that since how many private sector couples you know make that much? As well, many people do have that impression whether its right or wrong.

        Now while I may come across like a heartless bastard who think public sector employees should all be whipped and making minimal wage, in actuality I do not. For example, I have no problem with nurses making $60K to even $100K because a lot of them have a tough and hard job. In fact, a lot of essential services workers are not that gross overpaid as media and right wing parties like us to think. What is not helping the public sector employees is that they also have way too many bad apples that don’t get fired, people who brag about how little work they do and how much they make. Most people remember the negatives much better than the positives and when they hear just 1 story of a guy bragging about making $60K + overtime while doing only 2 hours of real work a day, they get pissed off and angry. Even if you tell them 10 stories how hard working underpaid public sector employees, they will still think all public sector employees are overpaid lazy bums.

        The other problem is that public sector benefits have now so outstripped private sector employees. Many private sector employees can’t get into public sector jobs and thus jealous breds resentment which leads to hate and we all know hate leads to the dark side. Private sector employees in general also have way less bargaining power than public sector employees where the politicians find it much easier to cave using taxpayer’s money. Since the public sector is supported by private sector and making so much more than the private sector, this imbalance will also breds resentment and it will not be sustainable. In a way, the public sector is now like the pigs in Animal Farms while private sector is like the rest of the farm animals.

    • imkinger | 17 December 2011 at 12:46 am | Reply

      Dumbest comment I’ve read on this blog, hands down.

  2. Good | 15 December 2011 at 10:01 am | Reply

    I think they doing the right thing. Safe jobs or not, minimizing risk is the prudent thing to do.

  3. granite countertop | 15 December 2011 at 10:47 am | Reply

    TFSA & RRSP aren’t investments, they’re investment vehicles. I’m assuming they mean, they’re investing in stocks/bonds/mutual funds. They could also buy REITs, but I would advise against that.

  4. 4SlicesofCheese | 15 December 2011 at 10:53 am | Reply

    I have an anecdote of two cousins, both originally from Victoria and both work for the government.

    One still lives in Victoria, works at the parliament building (not sure doing what but nothing too fancy) bought a build to suit house near UVic I estimate 4-5 year ago for around 800k (before they had kids). Stay at home wife and two kids now. Needed tenants to get mortgage.

    The second cousin works for CSIS in Ottawa, not sure what his occupation is, but with law degree and being tight lipped about his work I would assume its not a menial job. Out in Ottawa about 2-3 years now, bought a 3br townhome for 170k.

    Obviously the two properties are not apples to apples. But that is half the problem in itself, the amount of risk people are willing to take on in BC is ridiculous.

    Another issue is, say the government start austerity measures and cut back on public employees, if both lost their jobs would be more in trouble.

    • space889 | 15 December 2011 at 11:51 am | Reply

      two kids, stay at home wife, and $700K house, how much is your cousin getting paid?? Even with a $100K salary, I can’t imagine him making ends meet, even with a 25% down payments. Granted tenants will help but is that even enough?

      • 4SlicesofCheese | 15 December 2011 at 1:40 pm |

        I doubt he makes 100k. I would guess 60k at most.

        I remember when the place was still being built, which was before the US collapse, he was saying the mortgage is gonna be tight and he needed tenants for sure.
        I know he must of had a lot of help from parents and I think he himself saved a big downpayment.

    • keeperofthederp | 16 December 2011 at 12:32 am | Reply

      i dont think the CSIS fellow will be out of work anytime soon..

      ..half their budget goes towards watching the overseas chinese community here

    • CanuckDownUnder | 16 December 2011 at 5:22 am | Reply

      OK, I get that Vancouver/BC is expensive but please keep the bullshit to a minimum. There’s no way anyone with a law degree working for CSIS would be living in a a $170K property in Ottawa unless they’re working undercover as a Vanier meth lab operator.

  5. Mr. F | 15 December 2011 at 12:40 pm | Reply

    Regardless of what happens with the bubble the longer you wait to purchase a home the harder it will become. The only time I would agree that it would be appropriate to wait would be if you feel the bubble will burst and prices/values will fall.

    Nothing in anyones crystal ball says anything about values falling in the Lower Mainland, the primary reason being supply and demand. Here in Coquitlam our market is cooling. Even at that if we only have a 10% appreciation this year it is still great news for homeowners. So my recomendation would be to buy now not later. In not buying now you are loosing appreciation and tax writeoffs. As I tell most new buyers, just get on the up escalator! Once there at least what you currently own is appreciating at the same value as most of the homes around you so it will be easier when you are ready to sell and buy the next one.

  6. terminalcitygirl | 15 December 2011 at 12:51 pm | Reply

    Off topic anecdote:

    Family outside of Kamloops just sold their piece of crap old modular home on less than a half acre for $199K. They bought it in 2006 for $125k and built a $12k accessory building. The roof needs to be replaced but the building inspector didn’t catch that (are these people completely useless?!) I guess the death of the RE market in Kamloops has been somewhat exagerrated… I was absolutely floored that anyone would pay $199k for their property. It was listed at $215k.

    • Nemesis | 15 December 2011 at 6:19 pm | Reply

      Perhaps the buyers felt the ‘accessory’ building and/or it’s contents justified their generous bid. Just a theory, of course.

      As to “safe government jobs”, there were about 100K UK civil servants who, until quite recently, thought theirs were pretty safe, too. As it happens, not so much.

      Many, in their own small way, are still working assiduously towards that ever elusive ‘public good’, however.

      • terminalcitygirl | 15 December 2011 at 10:00 pm |

        Agreed Nem, that’s why I mentioned it. Apparently a few other similiar properties in the hood have been in the market some time without interest. Of course these folks are now going to take their modest gain and use it to get a big ole mortgage elsewhere. Oh and they’re 60, low income, health issues. Tell me how this doesn’t end badly…

  7. Vesta | 15 December 2011 at 4:28 pm | Reply

    Speaking of new commenters — I recently noticed the number of VREAA email subscribers (“followers”) seems to have jumped from about 61 to 153! Host, any ideas about the leap in *those* numbers? And: congratulations!

    • Nemesis | 15 December 2011 at 6:11 pm | Reply

      It’s bigger than you (or ‘them’ for that matter) think!…

      That would be the message. This is just the ‘medium’ (one of many) – to paraphrase Marshall. ;)

    • vreaa | 15 December 2011 at 10:26 pm | Reply

      Hey, we hadn’t noticed that. Thanks.

    • vreaa | 16 December 2011 at 8:06 am | Reply

      I think this perceived jump is the result of a change in classification.
      Pretty ironic, given our recent ‘Disappearing SFH’ discussion.
      The 153 figure includes those who have subscribed for updates by e-mail or by twitter. The prior number was e-mail only.

  8. Makaya | 15 December 2011 at 5:14 pm | Reply

    UBC Alumni event…

    The Next Step: Making Debt Work for You

    “Debt is a four-letter word, but there are times when it can work to your advantage. From financing a car or home to funding further education, taking on a loan can give you the financial freedom to fulfill dreams that might not otherwise be possible. Too much debt, however, can stretch you beyond your means and lead to serious financial headaches. So how do you find your comfort zone?

    Join us for The Next Step: Making Debt Work for You and start developing a debt-management strategy that makes sense. Our financial speakers will answer your questions about using cash versus credit cards, renting versus owning, and investing versus paying down debt. You’ll also learn what to look for when seeking out financial advisors.

    Whether you’re in the red, in the black, or in the process of making a large financial decision, this event is for you.”

    I won’t go but if anybody does, would love to hear what they have to say about owning vs renting…

    http://www.alumni.ubc.ca/2011/events/the-next-step/the-next-step-making-debt-work-for-you/

  10. 4SlicesofCheese | 16 December 2011 at 12:38 am | Reply

    http://www.citycaucus.com/2011/12/we-must-look-at-the-region-as-a-whole-to-solve-housing-affordability

    “If we all agree that lowering the value of current homes is not a realistic policy option, then it’s critical we get more creative in order to increase housing affordability. ”

    No we dont all agree, thats the problem right there. Policies like mortgage relaxation led us here, why should we not use policies to address this as well.

  11. JD | 16 December 2011 at 9:38 pm | Reply

    I think this is quite funny. Seriously half a house for $800per month inclusive of all utilities?…you mean small basement suite? Compared to $1000 per sq ft unit…where in Coal Harbour? You can buy a decent place in Surrey/N.Delta for much less.

    Also as D.I.N.K.s with $120 k per year public servants might sound good, but really its not that great. Their ceiling is likely 140-160k per year between them over their career. As a private sector employee with a decent education two people should be able to make much more than that. Have fun stagnating in Gov’t jobs while us private sector mid-30s couples pull in $250k plus and enjoy the ability to experience new jobs and opportunities every few years

    • DP | 16 December 2011 at 9:47 pm | Reply

      i think you need a major reality check there JD Very very few private sector employees make that kind of money and you won’t have a pension to boot.

    • Temenos | 22 December 2011 at 12:32 pm | Reply

      Yikes, I am the original op on this comment. I go away to Cuba for a week, come back, and my post has been tagged on VREAA and 50+ comments.

      @JD – Actually, yes, I am currently paying $795 a month in Delta, inclusive of all utilities/cable/internet, shared laundry. No dishwasher, but c’est la vie. I had a maid in Asia for 3 years, so I don’t mind washing dishes. Its quaint. Half a house above ground, direct entry, 2 bedroom, large backyard, large windows, great landlords upstairs. quiet residential neighborhood.

      Regarding your comments about opportunity cost. Well, a similarly sized condo down the street is going for 300K, so @ 5% d/p (15K) the CMHC homeowners insurance + property tax + condo fees + utilities + basic cable/internet roughly approximates what I pay in rent. Not withstanding the possibility of special assessments, upgrades, etc, THE AMOUNT I PAY ON RENT WOULD NOT PAY DOWN ANY OF THE PRINCIPAL OR INTEREST of a condo mortgage. I also don’t have noisy neighbors that I can’t choose like i could if i lived in a condo,have to wait around for the elevator, and best of all, the 15K i saved on the d/p will pay my rent for 18 MONTHS!

      Lastly, regarding your comments about making “big money,” good luck! To each his own mate. I worked in finance in HK for 3 years, have property on the Mainland, but now I’m thinking of starting a family here in Vancouver so i don’t really want to return to 50 hour a week work schedules like I had before.. I’m happy banking just 5-6K a month, having zero debt, zero stress, spending time with the wife, and growing my consultancy biz. And contrary to your point, the ceiling for gov’t workers in BC with multiple post graduate designations/management experiences is mid-6 figures. 60K is entry level.

      When the market normalizes, I’ll reconsider buying here, but not before then as my current situation has ZERO downside.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

Gravatar
WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. ( Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. ( Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. ( Log Out / Change )

Cancel

Connecting to %s