“As a Vancouver real estate agent I share the disbelief at the bizzaro real estate pricing we see so often here. This practice of re-listing at a higher price than a previous, unsuccessful listing is nothing new to Vancouver real estate. Last year I watched a “star” realtor list a $3.5MM condo for $8MM. Not surprisingly the listing was unsuccessful and the property remains unsold and off the market. Vancouver has managed to buck global real estate trends, however, it’s important to remember that sale prices, not list prices are indicative of the presence or absence of a bubble. The motivation for an agent to list a property at twice its justifiable market value is debatable but it does happen regularly. Many agents and sellers are pinning their hopes on the recent influx of Chinese buyers. Regardless, these tactics are not effective and do not necessarily point to a bubble. The reality of our real estate market is that prices are actually quite stable and have only increased modestly in value in the last year or two. Given immigration predictions, low interest rates and the fact that Vancouver has become an urban resort to the world’s wealthy, there doesn’t really appear to be as much froth as one would think.”
- comment from shaunkimmins at Global Economic Analysis 20 Nov 2011
Most Recent Comments:
- hcg drops on Gord Goble in Local Newspapers – Vancouver RE ‘House Of Cards’ Will “Implode”
- china il on British Columbians Selling & Moving To The US – “It was just too good of an opportunity to turn down.”
- tfcu oklahoma on British Columbians Selling & Moving To The US – “It was just too good of an opportunity to turn down.”
- Real Estate Tsunami on Chat Thread
- 604x on Chat Thread
- Monserrate on David Dodge – “Look mister borrower, you’ve gotta have an equity stake in this as well… so that if things go really bad, it’s not all on the Canadian taxpayer, part of it is on you.”
- 604x on Chat Thread
- 604x on Chat Thread
- Nemesis on Chat Thread
- neonatal nurse Jobs on ‘Giant Bubble Bursts Into The Record Books – “Screams of excitement followed gasps of astonishment as a giant bubble rose up and surrounded the participants before bursting in spectacular fashion.”
- What And When To Purchase Langley Real Estate Langley Real Estate Agents Can Be Busy Because Of The Completely New Building Around The City! | Bookworm Room on Author Of ‘Real Estate Investing for Canadians for Dummies’ “jumped into the market 3 years ago with a 2 BR apartment in Mount Pleasant”; Reports Ownership Cheaper Than Renting; Leaves Out Math
- rod_jonsson on Chat Thread
Type of Anecdote
- 01. He Said, She Said (247)
- 02. Profiting from the Boom (441)
- 03. Changed my Life (103)
- 04. Changed my Career (38)
- 05. Where do Buyers get the money? (958)
- 06. Held my Nose and Leapt (96)
- 07. Avoiding Vancouver (375)
- 08. Overextended Buyers (1182)
- 09. Delaying Buying (315)
- 10. Demoralized Renters? (362)
- 11. Regrets about Investing in RE (417)
- 12. Effects of Development (274)
- 13. 2010 Olympics Related (74)
- 14. Social Effects of the Boom (1255)
- 15. Misallocation of Resources (958)
- 16. Missed The Boat? (236)
- 17. The Froogle Scott Chronicles (27)
- 18. Spot The Speculator (171)
- 19. BlastRadiusPostCards (17)
- 20. The Limitless Demand Argument For Ongoing Market Strength (70)
- 21. Vancouver RE-Verse [Found Poems] (8)
- 22. RE References In Popular Culture (41)
- 23. Jumping The Shark (1)
- 24. Policies On Housing (10)
- 25. Epigrams For The Bubble (1)
- 26. Premature Calls Of "Bottom" (3)
- 27. Seller Panic (3)
- 28. Erroneous Causation Theories For Falling Prices (7)
- 29. Bubblespeak (1)
- Uncategorized (176)
Blogroll
- 01 Vancouver Condo Info
- 02 AmericaCanada [retired, no archive]
- 03 Housing Analysis
- 04 RealEstateTalks BC
- 05 Vancouver RE and then some
- 06 Whispers from the Village on the Edge of the Rainforest
- 07 Greater Fool
- 08 Canada Bubble
- 09 Rob Chipman's blog
- 10 YatterMatters
- 11 condohype [retired; archives available]
- 12 vancouver (un)real estate
- 13 Agent Will's Stats [retired]
- 14 Landlord Rescue
- 15 The Economic Analyst
- 16 Canadian Housing Price Charts
- 17 Hoodsurf [retired Jun 2011]
- 18 World Housing Bubble
- 19 Vancouver Price Drop
- 20 North American Economics


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Latest Anecdotes:
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
- “What’s the worst that can happen? You can’t pay your mortgage, so sell your house! No fear.”

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Realtroll
Nothing new here..
Typical response from a realtor.
Interesting to note that the tone has mellowed down a bit.
Sign of things to come???
A flat market would actually be a big issue for alot of buyers.
In the US even a flat market would have caused a collapse.
The reason? Everyone is buying based on a 7-8%(that’s a modest assumption in most peoples mind I think) appreciation model.
Take away the appreciation and buyers will slow down. It has already started especially in condos, I think thats why we see developers undercutting resale prices with their low presale offerings.
How long the general public catch on that annual appreciation has disappeared is the main question
“A flat market would actually be a big issue for a lot of buyers.”
—
We agree completely.
All it’s going to take for the market to crash is for it to stop going up.
[Sounds circular, but it isn't.]
Agree, many sins are hidden by rising prices.
I keep saying this over and over again too; A flat market will be all it takes to start the downward tailspin. Nothing in the lower mainland cash flows positive and the ONLY logic to buy in this environment is an assumption of appreciating values. As soon as it sinks in that prices are no longer rising, on a consistent basis, look out below!
Vreaa, 604serf posted a comment on VCI that is worth noticing.
The financial post wrote an article “‘Mingles’ moving housing markets” about single people not waiting for marriage before buying a place. In this article, they take the example of Melissa Yan:
“Melissa Yan wondered why she had to wait until she got married to buy a home.
She decided she didn’t. So the 28-year-old, who works in marketing, opted to jump into Vancouver’s hot housing market at Christmas in 2010.”
http://business.financialpost.com/2011/11/19/mingles-moving-housing-markets/
Well, it turns out that Melissa’s Marketing work is actually directly related to RE marketing…
From her public LinkedIn profile:
“Manage strategic real estate project marketing programs for clients. Responsible for marketing strategy, public relations, forecasting, budgeting, lead generation, event planning, media buying and negotiations. Initiate and manage strategy and direction with graphic and interior designers for marketing collateral, sales centers and show suites.”
http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/melissa-yan/10/241/22
I don’t know of we should be outraged, disgusted, sarcastic or amused by such an article… I just want to point out that FP just loss all its little remaining credibility it had in my mind for not disclosing such “details”.
I think it’s fair to have all of those emotions about all this.
Thanks, will headline.
The National Post was the worst of the Canwest/Global crap-paers. Opinions masquerading as news and analysis.
No shock that they left out the most important part of the story.
“It’s a home, it’s an investment — a bit of both.”
“I figured I would invest in an asset for now. I know it’s not my final home”
Melissa obviously studied quantum mechanics enough to understand the concept of duality. I’d like to believe nuance but confusion seems more likely.
Market is not flat. I do think condos have fared worse than the headline-grabbing sales in parts of tony areas of the region.
And from the same comment section, this one just got in:
“Vancouver is bordered by Mountains, Water, and the U.S. Border. Similar to Manhatten, it’s physical boundaries cannot be expanded.
Believe it or not, there is a lot of pent up demand, but it’s been waiting for a price drop for a decade. The market prices are out of whack with Real Estate around the world, and I think there is little value in Vancouver in comparison to other cities. But the population continues to keep growing and growing. I’m not making any predictions, but I watch with fascination.”
Same old…
This site in general has great data points and analysis
http://www.theeconomicanalyst.com/content/canadian-employment-withers-vancouver-and-area-inventory-builds-prices-feel-heat-chinas-prop
Where does that realtor work? Looking him up in google shows that he takes pride in focusing on Coal Harbour. Now… how’s CH doing? That area is exactly as he describes. Flattish and a playground for the World’s elite who pay a lot to look at the mountains and not have any direct sunlight. Of course, they are only there a few months a year…
world’s elite? Vancouver LOL yeah ok!, what nonsense. I don’t live there anymore but not a soul I have met has any interest in going to vancouver, NYC LA, anywhere in Europe, Tokyo sure. Outside of vancouver people barely know where it is
The delusion in Vancouver is unbelievable. Is it the dope? Is something in the water?
The anecdore about the 6 mill, listed for 17 mill, now listed for 31 mill shaugnessy mansion should definitely be added to the jump the shark archive. bizarro pricing indeed.
Not technically jumping the shark IMO. “Mingles” is definitely jumping.
Not sure everyone has noticed but, there seems to be no such animal as a flat market in stocks or housing for that matter. Up or down are the directions…still if a flat market existed for a while, I predict that realtards will have a hard time of it. It’s one thing to pay them tens of thousands of dollars when your house went up hundreds of thousands. It’ll be a different story to pay them if your entire equity after 5 years of paying your mortgage is swallowed up by them and you escape with your underwear. In negative equity territory which is entirely possible as well, imagine writing a check for a couple hours worth of work for $30,000. This will not fly… nope.
We’ll see. It will be interesting.