“I left Vancouver for a lot of reasons. I had 2 career streams to choose from, IT/management and culinary. To be honest I couldn’t find a job in either, and neither could a lot of my culinary school buddies. Most of them left Vancouver.
I left 2 years ago almost to the day and I’ve had a much easier time of it since then. I’ve climbed the ladder quickly, going from a technical consultant to Morgan Stanley ro a technical project management role, and currently I’m a senior business analyst specializing in cloud based IT solutions, specifically Salesforce related engagements. My salary has climbed accordignly. While I’m making very good money now, it wouldn’t be enough to even consider purchasing even a shit shack in Van.
While I found Vancouver beautiful, I think in a lot of ways people are deluded. I’m sorry, but you don’t have “the best weather in Canada”. It’s not cold in winter but you guys have the darkest, dreariest winters I’ve ever experienced, and I’ve lived in Ottawa in February. The city’s surroundings are beautiful but that’s about it.
The worst thing about the place is the whole nature of the housing market. The numbers on renting there and in Toronto might be similar, but they don’t tell the whole story. The rental stock in Vancouver is *awful*. Most of the apartments I saw were in horrible shape.
Worse is the stigma around renting, which happens no where else in Canada. There’s this whole weird vibe around renting, it’s like there’s something wrong with you.
I finally got tired of feeling like no matter how smart or well educated or determined I was, I was never going to get ahead in Vancouver. It’s a pretty place and I don’t mean to slam the city but I’m glad I left. I keep reading Vancouver housing blogs because honestly, you guys are at ground zero in the Canadian housing bubble and from a sociological standpoint, it’s fascinating.”
- scullboy at vancouvercondo.info 2 Nov 2011 4:34am
[This is an update. 'scullboy's story was previously featured on these pages]
We agree the Vancouver housing bubble is fascinating. Each time it appears to have reached ultimate fever pitch, it takes it up a notch. Things look precarious. – vreaa
a lot of people make financial sacrifices to live here. On one level it’s frustrating to have to accept less compensation for your work for the privilege of living in Vancouver. Businesses, government are aware of this negotiation advantage and use it to their advantage. Even the players on the Canucks take millions less to live in Vancouver (whereas places like Edmonton, Calgary need to overpay to retain talent). On another level it’s additionally satisfying when you actually succeed in spite of the obstacles.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. High-paid and high-skilled professionals are loath to move to Vancouver because it has weak business/professional networks. The salaries are low because productivity is low.
I spat coffee all over my keyboard reading your Canucks comment. You’re so full of crap dung beetles have to rub their eyes in awe.
“so full of crap dung beetles have to rub their eyes in awe.”….
I really wish I’d written that. Never mind, I’ll ‘steal’ it!
It is both funny and tragic that these things are truly what you believe.
Vancouver IS an amazing place for some, but the hackneyed arguments you present here again and again (and again under other aliases), outside of often being demonstrably false, reflect a mode of thinking that may have been applicable here a bunch of years back but simply don’t reflect reality any more. Are you honestly unfamiliar with how much life on the ground here has changed even in the last 5 years (never mind within the decade)?
Substantially lower pay ON TOP OF a more-than-doubled cost of living versus many other cities in Canada and the US is NOT indicative of Vancouver holding something of a premium over other places – it is a balls-out assertion that Vancouver sheer awesomeness makes it several times better than pretty much everywhere else in North America. This assertion is so weak that most people who have actually spent time living elsewhere in Canada or the States wouldn’t bother expending the energy needed to deride it.
blah, blah, blah, blah, . . . the same old dribble of crap – like you’ve been in a coma for the last 10 years. Wake up and recognize that things affordability has gotten so bad in Vancouver that people are leaving in higher numbers than ever.
OK, now hit me with your stale two year old in-migration statistics like you know what you are talking about. Idiot!
Come on diablo, you can do better than that. I will tell you that even athletes are not too keen on being traded to Vancouver. Remember how grudgingly those Americans accepted a move to the Vancouver Grizzlies. If anything, it is the Canucks that have to pay a premium to get half decent players. A city like Boston has way more to offer in terms of culture and entertainment (something an athlete would value during his RnR). Besides, how many athletes do we have.
We are talking the regular professionals who keep the economy moving (your accountant, engineer, hr manager, architect, doctor, systems analyst). I can guarantee you most of those people would rather be in a city where they get paid more i absolute dollar terms and their paycheck stretches a bit further.
Speaking as the guy who wrote the original article on VCI, I think I should perhaps clarify.
There’s a difference between “accepting sacrifices to live in Vancouver” and NOT BEING ABLE TO FIND WORK AT ALL.
When I had moved from Toronto to Vancouver, I had just completed some coursework and earned a PMP. In theory that made me more valuable, and I accepted a job with a salary 20,000 less then I had previously made. Yes, I was willing to come to Vancouver for less money.
It soon became clear to me I would have to accept less in housing too, which to he honest was upsetting. I had gone from a fabulous penthouse loft on the shores of Lake Ontario to a rather shabby building in the West End. At the time I was assures location was everything in Van, and at this place was a block from the beach and a block from Stanley Park I was renting a fabuous place. It certainly didn’t seem fabulous, as the floors obviously hadn’t been replaed in 40 years and the elevator was so dodgy I was nervous about falling to my death.
I moved up the ladder in my career a few months later by accepting a position at TELUS. Unfortunately I ended up working for a lunatic and life soon became pretty miserable. I ended up leaving and going to culinary school, then cooking for a lodge owner in the QUeen Charlottes. It was interesting but as the owner turned out to be a homophobic, racist, mysogynistic coke addict, I can’t say I’d have done it again.
When I returned to Vancover I couldn’t find *any* work *at* *all*. None of the restaurants were hiring, nor could I find anything in IT. I wound up working at a Cafe Artigiano for a week. I finally quit because I was so miserable…. I’d rolled out multimillion dollar call centers and high value IT projects, I’d coooked high end cuising and managed a commercial kitchen for months, and the best I could do was barrista.
I put it out on Facebook that I was looking for work in either the Maritimes or Quebec. Within 10 minutes a friends called with a contact, 5 minutes after that the contact got in touch with *me*, and two weeks later I had signed a contract in for an IT consulting job Nova Scotia.
I’m sure a lot of people do make sacrifices to move to Vancouver, but there’s a difference between making sacrifices and taking a job that’s so far below your abilities and paygrade. Vancouver is pretty, but the reality is, that’s it. Unless you have an extremely rare skill (oncologist, some sort of medical speciality or a particular field of study), I don’t think they’re good middle class type work to be had any more, and even for those lucky few, you’re never, ever going to e able to afford a house at this stage of the game. That whole ridiculous sense of “you’re lucky to be one of the chosen few who can live here” sense of entitlement that pervades Vancouver has finally gotten so far out of hand that it’s become unsustainable. At some point prices become so high and opportunites for advancement and true wealth generation the system begins to collapse.
Another thing to consider: those medical specialists you’re alluding to – the young ones who would be considering entering the market now or might be considering moving here in a more senior role – might have the bucks to get footing in this market… but increasing numbers of these folks are realizing the massive discrepancy between what they can get here versus elsewhere with the same amount of cash. I apologize to those who’ve seen me say it a few times before, but (@scullboy) there is a growing problem in this employment area with recruitment/retention. These folks aren’t hard up at all, but neither did they work and compete as long as they did for the ‘privilege’ of buying a so-so East Van tear-down that will suck up their free time – or a better place that requires 60-90 minutes of daily commuting. Not when they see what their 200-300k/year can get them elsewhere (and after they consider the fact that they may, on top of this, earn more in another location).
Same thing is happening with professors/researchers (as VREAA previously pointed out: http://tinyurl.com/3vahcd9).
It’s an issue that cuts across a lot of socioeconomic levels. Really, it’s an age issue: those under 40 are being pushed out.
We’re in our late 30′s and were *extremely* lucky in being able to purchase a home on the North Shore where we grew up with the profits from selling our previous home at the peak of the boom. We plan to stay here for a long time, so a collapse isn’t going to affect us in the same way that it would if we planned on “cashing in” by selling the place (always a dumb thing to count on anyway!). We have well paid secure jobs and a low enough mortgage that we could handle living on one income if needed. We would never have done it otherwise. I see people my age with $500k mortgages and it makes me just cringe. I have no idea how they can live, given salaries in this town, unless they’re dealing drugs on the side, and a lot of people probably are.
The only reasons that we stay in this town is that our family is all here and we are not financially stretched. I like this city less every year, and if we didn’t have the family ties, we would leave in a heartbeat for better opportunities elsewhere. My advice to anyone who can leave here is to get out and not look back. This city is the real estate and social equivalent of rat poison.