“I am completing my bachelors degree in December. Vancouver does not have entry level graduate trainee programs. This is mainly due to the lack of head offices. All jobs in Vancouver demand experience and will pay peanuts.
Now, Ontario and Alberta have hundreds of graduate entry positions with salaries ranging from $40k-50k. Even if Vancouver were to offer such positions – $40k in Vancouver is below the poverty line. Being a mature student with a family, my income should be able to offer my family a middle class existence. For me apartment/condo living does not cut it. I want my kids playing in the backyard. In other Canadian metropolitan cities one can buy a detached family home for $250k. It might not be all that but as a starter home for a young family that would be great.
I just can not wait to move to Alberta in the new year. This is a major loss to BC since my education was funded by BC taxpayers. As a full time student I had to put my child into daycare and the province subsidized the cost. I even received rent subsidies. I would have loved to serve the Province that enabled me to attain an education but just can not afford to due to the exorbitant cost of living and lack of meaningful career opportunities.
When you are as busy as I am you hardly have time for the skiing and kayaking. During winter times Vancouverites also get to shovel snow off their driveways. Vancouver winters are relatively mild compared to other parts of Canada but Vancouver weather is no California weather.”
- IamOuttaHere at VREAA 26 September 2011 at 11:16 pm
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- Thomasville furniture Nc on The Froogle Scott Chronicles: Mortgaging Our Souls In Paradise – Part 8: Renovation Nervosa Finale
- LadyInWaiting on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- buy cheap digital cameras on MSM Continue To Pump RE – “What’s next? “Cigarettes found to extend lifetime: Marlboro?”
- http://eplsite.com/friends/blog/view/481/time-how-guitar-case-hardware-to on MSM Continue To Pump RE – “What’s next? “Cigarettes found to extend lifetime: Marlboro?”
- bailinginbc on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Real Estate Tsunami on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Real Estate Tsunami on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- LadyInWaiting on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Nemesis on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- terminalcitygirl on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Xyz on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- rod_jonsson on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
Type of Anecdote
- 01. He Said, She Said (247)
- 02. Profiting from the Boom (441)
- 03. Changed my Life (103)
- 04. Changed my Career (38)
- 05. Where do Buyers get the money? (958)
- 06. Held my Nose and Leapt (96)
- 07. Avoiding Vancouver (375)
- 08. Overextended Buyers (1183)
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- 12. Effects of Development (274)
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- 15. Misallocation of Resources (958)
- 16. Missed The Boat? (236)
- 17. The Froogle Scott Chronicles (27)
- 18. Spot The Speculator (171)
- 19. BlastRadiusPostCards (17)
- 20. The Limitless Demand Argument For Ongoing Market Strength (70)
- 21. Vancouver RE-Verse [Found Poems] (8)
- 22. RE References In Popular Culture (41)
- 23. Jumping The Shark (1)
- 24. Policies On Housing (10)
- 25. Epigrams For The Bubble (1)
- 26. Premature Calls Of "Bottom" (3)
- 27. Seller Panic (3)
- 28. Erroneous Causation Theories For Falling Prices (7)
- 29. Bubblespeak (1)
- Uncategorized (176)
Blogroll
- 01 Vancouver Condo Info
- 02 AmericaCanada [retired, no archive]
- 03 Housing Analysis
- 04 RealEstateTalks BC
- 05 Vancouver RE and then some
- 06 Whispers from the Village on the Edge of the Rainforest
- 07 Greater Fool
- 08 Canada Bubble
- 09 Rob Chipman's blog
- 10 YatterMatters
- 11 condohype [retired; archives available]
- 12 vancouver (un)real estate
- 13 Agent Will's Stats [retired]
- 14 Landlord Rescue
- 15 The Economic Analyst
- 16 Canadian Housing Price Charts
- 17 Hoodsurf [retired Jun 2011]
- 18 World Housing Bubble
- 19 Vancouver Price Drop
- 20 North American Economics
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Latest Anecdotes:
- “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
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I love how Vancouverites say “It never snows in Vancouver” and refuse to do things like buy snowtires or snow shovels. And yet…I’ve lived here for ten years and can’t remember very many years when we DIDN’T get at least one good dump of snow. People in Vancouver are so delusional, it’s hilarious!
But you want to own a house with a (large) garden?
“(large) garden”….
In some YVR ‘hoods, Michael… it’s the ‘garden’ that’s the MortgageHelper. Not the basement dweller.
That would seriously eat into his (not) free time though.
Well BC may not benefit but another province will. We’ll get it back in transfer payments, though.
Down with real estate speculation.
Speculators!?
Didn’t get the memo? It’s the “idlers” who are the real problem (especially the ones with WordPress).
“Without doubt, machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers.” – Karl Marx
Idle speculation is a problem.
Love the Marx quote. Tragic, then, that BC’s manufacturing base has been decreasing for close to 20 years, often even the automation sits idle. Now pick up that nail gun and start nailing.
Ok good luck with your move. You will hate living outside bc but at least you have a well paying job
“You will hate living outside bc”
—
This conclusion based on…. What?
I think he is basing it on the harsh winters / hot summers. I know I personally won’t be able to stand it but more power to ya if you can.
“you will hate living outside bc”
Really? Think about what you are saying. Most people I know living in other parts of Canada are perfectly happy with where they live. I live in Vancouver now but I’ve lived in Edmonton and I can personally attest to the fact that although there are minuses, there are plenty of plusses too. Lots of minuses in Vancouver most importantly stupidly expensive real estate.
Well, I don’t know what the poster’s sought-for job is. But it’s always worth reminding myopic lower mainlanders that BC does not end at Whistler and Chilliwack.
It’s a huge province, folks! There are great small cities including Kelowna, Prince George, and Kamloops. Not to mention some of the smaller gems as well. Yes, all of those places get snow, but compared to Alberta, they are all a walk in the park. I know that as a fact, I’ve lived in some of those places and in Alberta.
All of them, even Kelowna (now that the market there has crashed)… even Victoria these days, if snow is your big issue… have much more reasonable real estate prices than anywhere on the lower mainland.
And, as for quality of life, I can attest to the fact that it’s great. Short or basically non-existent commutes. Friendly people. All of the conveniences that you’d have in Vancouver. Good hospitals. And no mega-mortgage hung around your neck.
Long-and-short of it… there’s no reason to completely abandon BC if you don’t have to.
In other news, “BC”… (or how the world really works, as the IPE scholars are wont to say)…
[CBC] – Kelowna man launches hunger strike over U.S. apples
“Jeff Bryde, a forklift driver for the Okanagan Tree Fruit Cooperative, says he’s been suspended without pay for writing letters to a local newspaper criticizing B.C. Tree Fruits for importing and selling U.S. apples.” [NoteToEd: Spoke with this dude yesterday, he's for real - and, 'mysteriously', both JimmyPattison's and Safeway's 'fruit stands' have redrawn the 'Dominion' map and are labelling their pyramids 'o RoyalGalas "BC/USA".]
http://tinyurl.com/3fkycvl
[CBC] – Canada’s lawyers exempt from money-laundering laws
“The law requires financial institutions and others, including lawyers, to keep records on money transactions in an attempt to stop terrorists and criminals from using cash. Canada’s 14 law societies challenged the law saying it infringed on solicitor-client confidentiality.”
http://tinyurl.com/5vjvwju
We lived in BC (Van) for many years but decided to move to Ontario so we could enjoy owning a home and have better career opportunities – very important stuff…to us at least.
“That would seriously eat into his (not) free time though.”
Having a backyard with a garden is very rewarding. Not sure why some would think that having a garden would take up a lot of your time? It doesn’t. You plant it, you water it and then you harvest it.
“Long-and-short of it… there’s no reason to completely abandon BC if you don’t have to.”
What’s wrong with abandoning BC? There IS life outside of BC. There seems to be this extreme defensiveness about BC towards those that are choosing to leave. Don’t get me wrong. We love BC and the beauty of the mountains, forests and ocean. However, we don’t want to live in a box, which is all we would be able to afford.
“I think he is basing it on the harsh winters / hot summers.”
This is Canada. Why is everyone so afraid of snow? Personally, I’d take 15 below and sunny blue skies in the winter any day over dreary, damp, non-stop rain. There are many beautiful winter days with bright blue skies, full sunshine and sparkling snow on the ground. People in BC love to ski in these conditions but are afraid to live in them? I can assure you, it’s not as torturous as many may think. Southwestern Ontario is a far cry from Nunavut. Having 4 seasons is very nice. Yes the summers in Ontario can be hot but they can also be very nice. For all of the summers we lived in Vancouver, summer usually didn’t start until sometime in mid-July. Cool rainy days in June just plain sucks!
Good luck to IamOuttaHere! BC isn’t going anywhere and you can still visit and enjoy the scenery at your leisure.
Because I had a garden? And no, it’s not THAT easy, or rather not that low labour thing you envision right now, depending on what you grow obviously. Mine was mid sized and during the summer months an hour a day was easily spent on making sure everything was in order.
I’m on the same boat, I’d hate to leave here owing but there seems no way.
Wow talk about sense of entitlment. So not only has BC and my tax dollars provided for your subsidized education, rent subsidies, childcare subsidies which incidentally my wife can’t get as a mature student because I have the misfortune of making too much $$, BC apparently also owes you a high paying entry job? You know what? I don’t mind people like you leaving BC as long as you pay back all those subsidies you got, you f*king leech! Yeah, tha’s right, that’s how much you are worth in my eyes. Don’t expect any pity/sympathies from me for your “ill” fortunes and the need to leave.
It never occurred to you to maybe stay and create some high paying jobs? To work hard and repay all those subsidies you got from BC tax payers? No? Yeah, just take the free money and benefits and then leave. Hmm…sounds a lot like another certain group people always like to hammer on for not contributing anything to BC but more than happy taking benefits.
F*cking leech.
space889 -> A society sets up benefits to attract and support individuals, in the hope that they develop their skills, stay, and contribute. It’s a give-and-take deal. What has happened now in Vancouver/BC is that a speculative mania in housing has so distorted the playing field that people like ‘IamOuttaHere’ are leaving. People do that; they always have; they seek greener pastures; we are all potentially nomadic if the push-pull math tips enough. The give-and-take math has to take that into account. If a society overcharges for housing ownership by a factor of 2 or 3, some people will leave because the math no longer works for them. They are not being “leeches” for doing so. What do you expect, for them to be charitable, and destroy their financial future by overcommitting to housing? Well, a few may do that, but many won’t.
The problem is not with individuals feeling overly ‘entitled’, it’s that the mania has made Vancouver that much less attractive. It’s not good for us, as we have repeatedly pointed out, it causes misallocation of resources: in this case, loss of human capital.
Yes you can argue that, however I don’t believe government should be in the business of charity. In this particular case, if government gave so much subsidies for this person then the government has an obligation to treat it as an investment and expects money to be paid back either through taxes when this person starts working again, or from the person directly if the person choose not to contribute to BC economy.
This person probably received tens of thousands of dollars from government, multiply this by thousands or tens of thousands of people and we are talking about some pretty huge numbers. The government is really in no position to give out this much “charity” money right now and frankly I see no reason why the government should pursue policies that expects this subsidies be repaid somehow. I don’t mind paying taxes for betterment of society (eg. school tax even if I have no children). However when you are likely to encounter cases where you pour massive resources into a mobile asset only to see the asset leave after getting the benefits then I think we have an issue and need to adjust the policies.
Very typical – you are an excellent example of why anyone would want and should leave.
I did the same. I left. When I graduated after a 5 year engineering program at UBC, I left Vancouver. Most of my classmates did too — hundreds of us. Vancouver has had a terrible work environment for over 30 years. The context of the RE bubble is even more astounding considering this factor.
Fortunately, Mr. Space889, people arriving in BC bring cash — much more than has ever been generated in Vancouver. So you might want to reconsider your liberal use of asterisks.
Well do those people actually hand over their nice of cash to the government to offset the money spend on subsidies? I doubt it, rather they also take $$ from government due to extremely low reported income.
I on the other hand pay lots of taxes to the government for the benefits of these people who takes but not give back, while my wife can’t receive any of these benefits because she has the misfortune of marrying me. Sorry, that’s just not really fair in my books and I’m not going to be very nice about it anymore.
Yeah, it’s tricky isn’t it?
What do you do, get school kids to sign a contract with the government, perhaps get them legally bound to agree to work and pay taxes in the province for at least one year for each year in high school?
That example is a joke, but, you get the drift…
Here’s an example of a government effort to alter human behaviour without adequate forethought regarding carrots and sticks:
Northern B.C. program barely producing rural doctors [cbc.ca 20 Sep 2011]
No obligation for medical students to practise in the north
“Less than 25 per cent of the first class that graduated from a provincial program designed to foster doctors for northern B.C. have actually opened practices there, CBC News has learned.
The Northern Medical Program, run by the University of British Columbia, benefits from provincial funding that amounts to about $90,000 annually per student. Its goal is to train doctors in the north so they’ll stay after graduation and serve those communities.
Students accepted into the program are not obligated to practise family medicine in northern B.C., where doctors are desperately needed. The province has invested $100 million in the program since it began in 2004.”
Out of the first class of 24 graduates in 2008, only five have started a rural family practice. Prince George got two of the graduates, and Fort St. John, Mackenzie and Trail each got one.
We’re sure your blood would boil over that one, space889
Yes and the solution I think is very simple, charge full tution with forgiveable loans after x years of service. So you can go in the program and go anywhere you want afterwards and make however much you want, but you pay the full cost of your education and maybe even some extra (why can’t the government make some $$ here that goes back into the education program?). Or you can work in the local communities (being rural BC outside if GVRD and Victor/Nanaimo) and have your loans and interest reduced to 0 say over 10 years and you pay no tuition while in school. That sounds pretty fair to me. Obviously I think there should be some additional incentives for doctors practicing in rural areas as well.
Sounds pretty fair to me, too.