“I have reached my goal, I landed a great job in Seattle working for Microsoft and we will be moving there November 1. Seattle is a much much larger metro than Vancouver and it has more to offer. It is definitely underrated but the world is catching on to it quickly. They are building so many new public works projects that the city will be in constant change over the next 10-15 years. Also housing is considered affordable when compared to Vancouver. The neighbourhoods in Seattle trump any of those compared to Vancouver, they are amazingly clean and very unique with great architecture to boot. I know Vancouver has some nice spots as we live in Kits, but when you compare it to the Seattle equivalents none of our areas really measure up. We will be able to actually afford a nice house in a nice area at around $800,000-$1,000,000 depending on the area. (Maybe I should say this is in a nice middle class to upper middle class area. If we want to live in a nicer area than this then we would be spending $1,250,000-sky is the limit. My point is homes there are going for what feels like half the amount.) We are all just so excited to be a part of such a wonderful place while surrounding ourselves by highly educated people. We think it is a tremendous service to our children to have this experience. We’ll even have sufficient funds to provide our children private schooling if we choose to go that route and the schools there are quite nice. We are doing our part as parents and we are teaching them that putting all your money in a single asset is just plain stupid. Here is why we are not going to miss Vancouver. Yes we like Vancouver but the affordability is out of control and we own our place. The cost/benefit analysis does not add up and there are places on this planet that are just as nice if not nicer that we can live and be happy while being able to save sufficiently for our retirements. We could not be more pleased.”
- Brad in Van, greaterfool.ca, 13 Sep 2011, 10:21am and 10:24am
Ok, ok, Seattle’s nice, we get the picture. 
As the comedian said to his toddler son, eager to see his Dad at day’s end: “Okay, okay… you’ve got the job!”
An interesting story for its eagerness, and the quality of emotional relief (which we suspect is partly related to housing issues, but partly related to the new job). – vreaa
Seattle seems perfect, its on my list but they dont have ANY subway/sktrain .. thats a borderline dealbreaker (i know they have that little dinky thing d/t).
other factors are, youre still close to freinds and family.
I think theres over 6 fortune 500 companies there?
I think Portland has a train. It’s cheaper then Seattle for housing. (and has Powell’s bookstore.)
I hate to say this. I have been to Seattle about 30 times in my iife for business / leisure / shopping. I would never live in Seattle over Vancouver, the food is better in Vancouver, the view is better in Vancouver, the buildings are newer, the city feels newer, our downtown is not dead after 6pm. Maybe it’s just me, I am an outdoor person who values good food and prefer modern residences over character buildings. Seattle certainly is nowhere near NYC or SF.
The thing that makes Seattle attractive is the amount of money that you can make there. We find that on average in the higher salary ranges, you get paid about 20% more in Seattle, your expenses are about 20% less, and you probably get taxed about 10% less there. So all in all, you are looking at a 50% increase in earnings. That’s attractive to me a little bit, but even then, I am not sure that if I was to relocated, I’d much rather go to SF or NYC where you make even more than Seattle.
I see Vancouver and Seattle as two very similar cities myself with minor differences. But they are almost twins.
Since the late 1980s we’ve been trying to keep Seattle a secret. The Californians almost took over in the 1990s and drove housing prices way up. At one point Seattle housing listings were being published in Calilfornia newspapers.
I would tell people from California that it never stops raining in Seattle.
food…
you talking regular food or ‘foodie’ stuff with chutneys, reductions and drizzles?
In my opinion, you can certainly find good food in Seattle. Vancouver wins at:
– Chinese restaurants
– Trendy, foodie restaurants
Consider Japanese food.
– For high quality, expensive sushi in Seattle I would hit Nishino near the Arboretum, and in Vancouver I would hit Tojo’s. Qualitywise, I think they’re about the same.
– For traditional, homey-style Japanese cooking in Seattle I would hit Izumi in Kirkland, and in Vancouver I would hit Zipang. They’re pretty comparable.
– But for trendy, yuppie Japanese food, Seattle has nothing to recommend, whereas Vancouver has Hapa, Guu, Suika, Kintaro, Sanpachi, etc.
nice, thats what i thought.
One difference between Seattle and modern Vancouver is that no one in Seattle would ever claim that it is like SF or NYC. If you want to live in those places, you move to those places.
yep. double yep.
And we like it that way. Don’t want to be NYC or SF.
OT:
Shanghai housing oversupply now at record level
“At the current pace of sales, it could take more than 15 months to unload the entire stock – far more than the six months recognized as healthy in terms of inventory digestion speed.”
Government measures to rein in the runaway property prices have resulted in fewer sales of new and previously-owned homes in major Chinese cities, although prices have remained firm.
ShanghaiDaily.com 16 Sep 2011
All bubbles eventually pop. – vreaa
That’s a flesh wound anecdote.
I think China will crash hard in a few years, probably 2-3 or so. That does not mean that real estate will not begin to crash hard before then. Think of it like that warm silent air blowing through a tunnel, presaging the noisy subway roaring through the station. Mind the gap.
I have lived in both Vancouver and Seattle for multiple years and have been thinking recently about the differences.
Some thoughts:
– Julian’s observations “salaries about 20% more in Seattle, expenses 20% less, and taxed 10% less” are pretty accurate. (Actually I would say the numbers should be ever larger.) But it’s important to note that housing costs are less by a factor of, say, 3 (depending on neighborhoods, etc.) Since a house is typically the largest purchase one ever makes, and mortgages are typically one’s largest monthly expense, this cheaper housing makes a huge impact on one’s finances.
– Because of their good freeway system (such as I-5 going straight through downtown, complete with express lanes), commuting long distances into downtown is quite reasonable. In comparison, commuting from West Van to Van West through downtown is extremely painful.
– Restaurants in Vancouver are unquestionably better than in Seattle. But, if you’re getting a 50% increase in earnings, as Julian argues, then you might as well fly up to Vancouver by helicopter whenever you want a night on the town.
– Brad didn’t mention healthcare. (Perhaps because he hasn’t experienced it firsthand yet.) With good insurance coverage (as one would get as a Microsoft employee), healthcare in Seattle is superb, far far better than in Vancouver.
– Seattle public schools, especially on the Eastside and Mercer Island, are significantly higher rated than Vancouver public schools. (Check out the Fraser Institute School Rankings.)
– The top-notch private schools in Vancouver (say, St. George’s and Crofton) outclass the best private schools in Seattle (say, Lakeside). I think this is because St. G’s and Crofton are perhaps the top 1 or 2 schools in all of Canada, whereas none of the top 10 schools in the US are in Seattle.
– Crime in Seattle tends to be very segregated by neighborhood. If you live in Bellevue, Mercer
Island, Medina, etc., crime is extremely low. I would not worry about parking my car anywhere, in
any of those cities. But crime in Vancouver is much more spread out, and I would be concerned about
leaving valuables in my car no matter where I park it in Vancouver.
– [Warning: Vast generalization] My typical impression of the immigrants (say, from China and India) in Seattle is that they are highly educated, working in tech companies. My impression of the immigrants here is that they are usually “investor class” or “unskilled laborers”.
– [Warning: Vast generalization] I find that people in Vancouver tend to be very ostentatious (even those that are “rich because they borrowed a lot of money”), but people in Seattle tend to hide their wealth. (Of course I know plenty of counterexamples as well.) I know plenty of Seattleites worth many millions of dollars who live in modest $500k homes and drive Hondas.
“commuting long distances into downtown is quite reasonable”
I have to politely disagree with this one. The last best hope for anyone living in Seattle is to find work outside the downtown core. Rush hours are a mess, and even weekends can take well over an hour to traverse the downtown core.
I will certainly concede your point that Seattle has traffic problems. But, if I were commuting by car, I would prefer the trip from North Bend to University of Washington over the trip from Maple Ridge to UBC. Both are about 50km, but the former is freeway almost the whole way.
For working downtown one option is to live on Bainbridge Island and ride the 25 minute ferry into the city.
And the schools are good on the Island. I don’t know what the ratings are right now, but Mercer Island used to be first, and Bainbridge second for the public schools.
And, yeah, it’s true people hide their wealth. In general it’s considered very outre to show your wealth. (except amongst some in Bellevue.)
Guess you haven’t driven in on the #1 on Fri afternoon coming in from Abbotsford. You are right, though, Seattle traffic jams can be really incredible especially on the I-5 but highway but road infrastructure is 3x what’s in the Lower Mainland. It’s interesting that out of about 30 “Vancouver” friends I have, exactly 6 have moved to Seattle. They were all non-Chinese and I think this is the major difference between Vancouver and Seattle – Vancouver is predominantly a Chinese/Asian city while Seattle is not.
thanks for the info!
i heard traffic is a nightmare even w/ I5 going d/t.
why the heck dont they have a train system? not even 1 line.
I like that fact about people being modest. Im getting sick of bimmers everywhere I look.
So many helpful things on this blog. Thanks again, VREAA.
Caveat: schools in Vancouver, public and private, are in my opinion overrated except for St. George’s and the International Baccalaureate program at Churchill.
Extremely over-rated – and depending on the school especially difficult for elementary age children to learn proper english when 85% of the school population speaks Chinese. Believe me, it’s very frustratnng and dissapointing compared to the educational experience a child gets elsewhere in Canada. If I wanted my child to be surrounded by Chinese, I’d move to China!
“The top-notch private schools in Vancouver (say, St. George’s and Crofton) outclass the best private schools in Seattle (say, Lakeside). I think this is because St. G’s and Crofton are perhaps the top 1 or 2 schools in all of Canada, whereas none of the top 10 schools in the US are in Seattle.”
Yeah – Exeter and others on the east coast are in their own class. I’m surprised that Bush or Lakeside aren’t as good as privates in Vancouver. Are the Vancouver privates reaching Exeter quality?
“Are the Vancouver privates reaching Exeter quality?”
lol Stuyvesant, UCC, the list goes on, now add St. Georges and York House errr Crofton to the esteemed list.
Best school, or best students. Makes you think… will people remember me for my grade school pedigree or maybe I have something else to offer this troubled world.
ha! It is funny how people who go to Exeter get their ticket written for life. I guess more about connections then anything else.
I’ve decided I must be very unsophisticated food-wise, as I generally find Seattle restaurants tasty, especially those near Pike Place Market. Then again, the restaurants aren’t Chicago-level 5 stars.
But for anyone looking for future recs – this one is not bad: http://www.chezshea.com/index.php?DepartmentID=2&MenuID=2
I have no firsthand knowledge about Exeter or Seattle privates. But I do know a man who went to Vancouver privates, whose wife went to Seattle privates, who live in Seattle, but are contemplating sending their kid to Vancouver privates because they are “better”.
What does “better” mean? Unclear. But here’s one example: St. G’s has a physiotherapist on staff. So if your son has a strenuous day on the rugby field, he can go get massaged afterwards. I’m passing no judgements on this — I leave that to your amusement.
I’m still trying to formulate an opinion on the public vs private question, so I don’t think I have a bias one way or the other.
I can provide a limited quantitative comparison on Lakeside vs St G’s, whatever that’s worth. If I have time, I’ll do that later.
How difficult is it to gain entrance to these different private schools?
Being able to pay the tuition is a given, but how important are ‘connections’? Does that vary between the US and Canada?
To what extent have increases in Vancouver Westside property prices made it more difficult for local pupils to gain entrance to schools like Crofton and St. Georges?
The $16K+ per annum fees are no longer a hurdle to any Westside owner… given RE price increases and the ease of attaining HELOCs.
So, are these schools now oversubscribed? Is it more competitive to gain entry? You would imagine so.
How does that compare with private schools elsewhere in Canada, and in the US?
St. G.’s is all hype and money and spoon-feeding rich brats. From my experience, their grads can’t cut the mustard in top Canadian universities. Another sucker list for the HAM ! It’s all about advertising and self-claimed excellence that drives Vancouver. St. G’s is just another one of the many examples of how absolutely over-rated things are in Vancouver. Sorry for the brutal honesty but it’s based on 20 years of experience and observation.
“St. G’s is just another one of the many examples of how absolutely over-rated things are in Vancouver”
It’s more likely the student, not the school. Having spent some time in private school myself, it’s always a struggle for the school to admit the high performing kids whose families struggle to make tuition, and still maintain their funding base via kids who may not measure up but whose parents are well-heeled.
One school I’m familiar with has turned away parents and kept their tuition down in the name of keeping things elite.
And you can’t tell me that a kid attending a private school close to Microsoft is going to perform worse than a kid attending an elite private school in Vancouver. Are Bill Gates’s kids underachievers?
I had friends who went to Lakeside, Bush, Seattle Prep and Northwestern. All are excellent. Fun factoid – Bill Gates went to Lakeside.
Then again, one of my friends went to Garfield, a public school in Seattle, and he got his PhD at CalTech in Computation and Neural Systems. So private is as private does.
“Being able to pay the tuition is a given, but how important are ‘connections’? Does that vary between the US and Canada?”
Phillip’s Exeter Acadamy is very hard to get into (New Hampshire) but I don’t think it’s a big deal for good students to get into Seattle privates.
A relative went to Exeter and got in partly through legacy connections and because he spoke four languages.
“And you can’t tell me that a kid attending a private school close to Microsoft is going to perform worse than a kid attending an elite private school in Vancouver. Are Bill Gates’s kids underachievers?”
You’re right — it’s quite silly to say that private School X is slightly better than School Y because of minor thing Z. I’m sure highly performing kids will be great achievers regardless of what school they attend.
About Seattle vs Vancouver privates, I was merely reporting the anecdote from my acquaintance that he believed Vancouver privates to be slightly better.
Here are some of the reasons I can think of for sending your kids to top private schools:
– Low chance that your classmates are drug dealers & gang members
– If you’re a high achiever, lower chance of being ostracized (i.e., beat up) by your classmates
– Almost all of your classmates will go on to university
– Many of your classmates will be very high achievers (e.g., possible future mayors Peter Armstrong and Jason McLean are both St G’s alums)
– A decent fraction (> 10%) of the graduates go on to elite US universities (Ivy League, Stanford, MIT, etc.), which is pretty much a ticket to the good life. At Lakeside in Seattle that number is 20%.
http://www.lakesideschool.org/ftpimages/252/download/ProfileLakeside-Final%202010-2011.pdf
hope Microsoft doesn’t start laying off people …
The main difference is in the economy/employment opportunities. Seattle has multiple world-class companies paying high wages.
$1,000,000 in Seattle will get you a nice large single-family home in an upper-middleclass neighborhood of lawyers and higher-level software engineers, with good schools.
Downsides: Seattle, despite having many immigrants working the high tech industries, does not feel nearly as international as Vancouver does. That is probably reflected in the food scene. I live in Portland, Oregon and think we have a better food scene down here than in Seattle.
Traffic is a real daily factor in Seattle. It is a car-dependent city, and because it has grown and has so much economic activity, highways and freeways are packed even beyond what you would normally consider the rush hours. Everyone knows the shortcuts and there are few tricks to avoiding traffic.
Seattle traffic is a nightmare!! Cities that are freeway-dependent have worse traffic–ceteris paribus.
One other main problem with Seattle is the lack of density. I feel that the city is too spreadout due to the highway system. I guess that is how US city planners did it, they have their major highways that transport people around at good commute times. But that usually means that Seattle downtown is deserted at night because no one really lives there. That irks me, when I went to visit Seattle, I usually couldn’t find much to do at night there. But I think Seattle people are more down to earth than Vancouverites, they aren’t as arrogant as we are, I do find a lot of vancouverites feel cocky that they live in the most livable city in the world.
Seattle is simply twice as livable than Vancovuer in everyway but 5x when it comes to the cool factor.
I have to admit I really love Seattle. It feels like there is more water than vancouver with lake Washington. The Bellevue area is very nice with beautiful parks and nice homes. Do some comparisons to the west side and you get way more house down there. Downside is…it is america and some things would take getting used to. Sorry, Julian but when I am in seattle there is lots to do at night – many nice streets downtown full of restaurants bars etc.
Julian – what are you looking to do downtown? You could check out this site next time you’re in town for things to do: http://www.thestranger.com/
Other options downtown: bars in Pioneer Square or Belltown; there are a bunch of nightclubs in Belltown including the Crocodile, http://thecrocodile.com/index.html?page=calendar; For music the Moore Theatre or the Pink Door; Benaroya Hall for symphonies; Paramount Theatre; Pacific Northwest Ballet – Seattle Center; movie theatres; ACT for live theatre; the Seattle Opera is at the Seattle Center. I like the Bookstore bar near the Alexis Hotel on 1st right next to McCormack & Schmick’s seafood restaurant. You can take the monorail from Westlake center downtown to the Seattle Center if you don’t want to walk.
Have fun next time you visit! cheers, Yank (ex-Seattlite)
Thanks for the info, I’ll definitely check these places out. I walked around Seattle downtown at night but it just didn’t feel as lively as Vancouver DT cause all the stores close at like 6 or something. It could be that I didn’t visit the right places. For example, everytime I go down to SF, the area around fisherman’s wharf is happening till like midnight which is pretty cool, just don’t feel that there is a place like that in Seattle. Usually when I visit, I like to go to Bellevue Square, Pike’s market, University Village (my favorite), Seahawks and Mariners games.
To be closer to the action maybe book a hotel closer to Pike Place Market. (Inn at the Market is very nice or Moore Hotel – next to the Moore Theatre if you’re looking to save money. http://www.moorehotel.com/) Or The Alexis hotel on 1st is closer to both Pioneer Square and Pike Place Market.
But there are a bunch of hotels in the banking district around 5th Ave, and stuff does close down at night there. People live in Belltown.
Disclaimer: But dowtown Seattle is not SF or NYC.
Besides Belltown, which has bars/nightclubs you might check out a walk along the waterfront from the Ferry dock to Pike Place on summer evenings and Capitol Hill, which has art movie theaters, Elliot Bay Bookstore and good coffee shops.
Seattle is more neighborhood based and spread out then Vancouver.
No kidding – Mercer Island is incredible value for the money and real class compared to anything in BC’s lower mainland. There’s no wonder why the Alaska cruise ships all port in Seattle now.
Seattle has nicer bars but even worse weather than Vancouver. And I’m sorry but Microsoft is going down the tubes. Too many middle managers, not enough innovation, too much cash cow milking. Check out the Mini-Microsoft blog: http://minimsft.blogspot.com/
By worse weather, you mean about 2 deg warmer on average and slightly less rain in winter. Check the clmate stats.
no, no we’re pasty white and suffering from Vitamin D-shortages because we never, never see the sun.
And, seriously, Vancouver is a great place. The only problem with Vancouver is the housing bubble. And the US is having a political nervous breakdown right now. Salaries are stagnating because of the economic situation. Honestly, it’s a good time to be in Canada. Just be careful in the housing market.
Yank, maybe you can explain to me what in the world is going on in the US right now. Cause it doesn’t appear that you guys have a GDP issue, in fact, US corporations are raking in the cash and have had record profits; so it feels very different than Europe where I think productivity is actually an issue.US corporations are probably the most productive in the world in terms of innovation, process, and people development. Feels to me that the real issue is more of wealth distribution than anything else. Does the republicans not get that at all? I am a conservative and even I don’t agree with the republican’s current approach cause there isn’t much else that Obama can do. All the QE has gone to the cash accounts of the rich / corporations. And they aren’t spending that money.
@Julian Lee
This guy (Sir James Goldsmith) explained what was going to happen. He laid it all out in 1994. I recommend watching all parts (don’t worry, the extremely rude, obnoxious, and annoying Laura D’Andrea Tyson eventually leaves). Simply amazing prescience. He answers your question better than most people can do today, post hoc!
“Does the republicans not get that at all? I am a conservative and even I don’t agree with the republican’s current approach cause there isn’t much else that Obama can do.”
To get some various commentary on the situation you might look at the blogs or twitter feeds of the economist Brad DeLong, Nouriel Roubini, and Calculated Risk for specific housing market commentary
http://delong.typepad.com/
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/
It’s complicated.
The economic shock to the US (and the world) was far greater then originally expected from the housing bubble fall out. Interest rates are at the zero bound. We’re in a liquidity trap. The stimulus was too small and designed badly. Household debt levels are still high, too many people are underwater, and consumer consumption is low. Buisnesses don’t want to spend on investment/hiring because they are worried demand will not increase. So it’s a cycle: with unemployment at ridiculous levels and that lack of money reinforces the lack of consumer demand which hurts buisness.
Culturally the high unemployment is fueling people’s anger. That’s causing the rise of heated rhetoric, and sillyness like threatening to default on the debt. The Republican elites don’t have a lot of control over the party right now, and politicans are scared of being primaried if they don’t do what the base wants.
In terms of the political situation the US is designed to be a divided government. The president doesn’t have control over the legislature, unlike a Prime Minister system. Right now political tensions are adding to the issue and we’re in the silly season of electioneering. Nothing is going to get done until the next Presidential election now because nobody wants to give the other “team” a win.
To all of you idiots bitching about the low quality of the lower mainland’s public schools, you have no fucking clue how lucky we are that the public school system functions as well as it does compared to the UK or the US. One of the few shining Canadian achievements that doesn’t garner nearly enough recognition as it should is the overall high quality of our education system. With all things being equal, a student who attends any public school in the lower mainland stands as much of a chance as a privately educated kid in succeeding in life. Contrast this with a British public school system (and I don’t mean the independent schools) which now offers credits in working in a fast food restaurant, which is now pumping out record numbers of kids with A* qualifications through grade inflation and you can see plainly how low Britain has declined.
And seriously, you people are talking about Phillips? Let me guess, you’re all raising kids who are going to be George Soros, Wayne Gretzky and Gustav Mahler at the same time?
Finally, white people, please shut the fuck up about asian food. I have yet to eat at an asian restaurant, highly recommended by white people that wasn’t shit.
[Whoooaaa! Cool down, matt. Whatever you had for dinner tonight, didn't agree with you. -ed.]
I think where many Vancouver schools fall down is in comparison to the rest of Canada. By the way, Asian restaurants in Vancouver are also highly over-rated and extremely over-priced. More and more people realize it’s not about having a shitty attitude and charging a small ransom that makes a good restaurant. Then again, a lot of Chinese restaurant aren’t that expensive but the service is definitely some of the worst in the world. Same thing throughout Asia – China and Hong Kong had the worst service of any other countrys. I often thought that the Chinese hated white people. Perhaps I’m right.
Matt is a bit over the top and I definitely don’t agree on swearing on this blog, we are quite civilized here. I also wouldn’t bring race into it. As for airedales, I suspect that you have been going to the wrong restaurants. I am particularly picky for food, for Chinese and Japanese food and I have to say that the quality is pretty good in Vancouver and the price is better than any other place in NA for the quality. If you have been to the ones catered to white people, yeah, then I am sorry, but they suck. Chinese service will always be bad to both Westerners and Chinese, it does not matter the race I can assure you.
There are a ton of hidden treasures in Pan Asian cuisine in Vancouver that you never hear about. For example, it wasn’t till recently that Ajisai has gotten the recognition that it deserves, they have been serving the best dollar for dollar sushi in Vancouver for years, Zipang is good too, but I only go there for their takoyaki cause I can’t seem to find it anywhere else for a reasonable price. For Chinese, try Kalvin’s restaurant on victoria, gurantee that you’ll be satisfied and they are around 10 bucks a dish which is very reasonable. I would skip all other dim sum places and pay the extra premium at Kirin, but only the one on 12th and Cambie, that one has the best food / service in my opinion.
If you just stick to the treasures, then you’ll find in a hurry that actually Vancouver probably has the best dollar for dollar Asian cuisine in NA.
haha! funny dude! Casper must have recommended his local Chinese last night.
“you have no fucking clue how lucky we are that the public school system functions as well as it does compared to the UK or the US.”
From what I can tell, both the US and Canada have a broad range of quality in their public schools. For rankings, check out
http://britishcolumbia.compareschoolrankings.org/elementary/SchoolsByArea.aspx
http://washington.compareschoolrankings.org/elementary/SchoolsByArea.aspx
(The ones listed in Washington State are all public.)
Of course one can find plenty of stories about how bad the US public school system can get (e.g., Waiting for Superman).
The point I’d like to make is that the high end US public schools are extremely good. And buying a house in a top Seattle school catchment is significantly cheaper (say, by a factor of 3) than in a top Vancouver school catchment. So, I could afford to send my kids to a top US public school, but not to a top Canadian public school (well, except by renting).
“Finally, white people, please shut the fuck up about asian food. I have yet to eat at an asian restaurant, highly recommended by white people that wasn’t shit.”
You’d be surprised how many people on Vreaa sound white but are actually Asian.
Isn’t this what we’re really talking about?…
[G&M] – For U.S. workers, the lost decade of opportunity
http://tinyurl.com/68k2dmk
“I don’t believe in the American dream… I’ll never be better off than my parents.” – Ms. Smith, 45, of Oakwood, Ohio, [lost her position as a bank loan officer in the mortgage meltdown]
“New figures this week from the U.S. Census Bureau show that the median income for working-age households fell 10 per cent between 2000 and 2010, even as women worked more hours.”…
“The average real wage for working men is now lower than it was in 1973.”
“The EPI estimates that the richest 5 per cent of households grabbed roughly 82 percent of all the nation’s gains in wealth in the past three decades. Sixty per cent of households were actually poorer in 2009 than in 1983.”… [NoteToEd: 'Gini' this - in aggregate, America's wealthiest 400 families are worth more than the entire bottom 50% of the US income distribution curve.]
“The promise of a consistently upwardly mobile society is fading. Ms. Shierholz said parental income is now the greatest predictor of what income kids will generate as adults, more than education or hard work.” – [NoteToEd: It is a sorry axiom of social science that the most accurate predictor of life chances/outcomes are the circumstances of one's birth (as to whom, where, when)]…
Probably the most important issue in economics today and one of the most important issues for everyone, rich and poor alike. It’s also happens to be the reason I left Vancouver, thinking about where the place was going. After 10 years of grad and post-grad studies, it was hard to digest that a cab driver with no education and very poor English had a networth that was 15x mine just because he bought a house in Vancouver decades ago (don’t get me wrong, this guy bust his ass to put his two kids through UBC as well).
During that fare though, I realized that with making an average professional salary of 6 figures and buying a house in Vancouver at the time, that it would take most of my working life just to match the cab drivers wealth. I wasn’t about to waste my education sticking around so I thought. Of course, I could have levered up, bought and made 2000% (this not a typo) in just 10 short years – more money than i could have ever hoped to make in my chosen career.
Out of curiosity, what places did you consider moving next, and where did you end up?
Cowtown
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away… ‘Nem’ spent a summer ‘break’ driving for Bonny’s by day and beating sheepskins with sticks by night in assorted seedy venues (including the Orpheum)… The owner operator/licensee was nearing retirement and offered Nem one of his Burnaby plates for the paltry sum of 10 large. Any guesses what one of those trades for now, Airedales? Hint: mid-six.
Shoulda bought it. Came complete with one ‘o these 6.6L beasts attached (gratis)…
http://tinyurl.com/5tnn6ne
“To all of you idiots bitching about the low quality of the lower mainland’s public schools, you have no fucking clue how lucky we are …”
Amen!
shut up fred. you’re a prime example of how our education system has failed.
hahaha
Okay, guys … behave yourselves.
No bickering during the movie, and watch you manners during the meal.
Remember, you’re guests here.
I love all the lies on here, DT Vancouver isn’t vibrant or exciting, it’s as dead as a doornail. I lived in False Creek for 11 years so I know how bland and lame that town is. Dining was also bland and uninspired. Vancouverites to this day are the most arrogant closed off unworldly bunch I have ever met. Far worse than Americans, and Im in the Southern USA now. What baffles me is that people actually pay to live there. I love living in the USA now, as a dual citizen and we’ll never go back to Canada. I couldn’t justify doing my MBA with zero real career prospects in the Vancouver ” business district” ( laughable) and then driving up and down Broadway, Granville and Seymour thinking that bubble tea, camping,fishing and the Canucks is actually worth living there for and deluding myself in thinking its cosmopolitan. It isn’t a big city, a world class city or even really a city. It’s a large sleepy tourist village that wishes it matters on the world stage and the propaganda there just proves it.I hate Vancouver so much it makes my blood boil and get angry even thinking about it. I went to GNS private school in Victoria BC in Oak Bay. The lot of my old classmates either moved away to live in real cities and have real lives or went to private school and didn’t become successful at all. Canadian schools don’t seem to that much better. It’s what silly Canucks tell themselves to spite and convince themselves to the USA. No more Granville Island, no more skiing, no more small town people. A buddy of mine just become an oral surgeon, he moved to NYC to start his practice, why on earth would he choose NYC over the “best place on earth” ?maybe vancouver isn’t on the map for educated people. Way to go Vancouver!!! the only people that live there are( or want to) are aging baby boomers and the 3rd world… what a city !!!!! And one final comment, I never lived in a city like Vancouver where people pretended to be rich like they do there, what the hell kind of careers do people do there? I never figured that out. I know engineers that bag groceries at save on foods in east van, my realtor was an engineer but realized that he would never have a real career as an engineer there so in 1986 became a realtor .Vancouver is a poor city, with piss poor opportunities. I only stayed to do my MBA and watch my property values rise from when I got in during April of 2001 I cashed out to some foreign fool. Im so happy I left.