Spot The Speculators #47 – $1.6M Tax-Free Profit In 36 Months – “The mere act of overpaying for a house three years ago might have been the smartest financial decision we had ever made.”

Frank O’Hara’s ‘China’s Real Estate Spree in Vancouver’ [1 Jul 2011 edition of BC Business] is a ‘must-read’. This personal anecdote excerpted -

“The note, one of those yellow stickies from 3M, was stuck on the door of our west side Vancouver home late one Tuesday night in March. My wife, Cynthia, found it early Wednesday morning while letting our dog out and called to me upstairs: “Baby, you’ve got to come down here.”
In clear, studied script it read, “I would like to buy your house. I am not a realtor. Please call me.” It listed a local phone number and was signed “David” in block lettering. We looked at each other, both resisting the urge to cackle with glee and dance around the room with our winning lottery ticket. Barely resisting.
Like just about every other homeowner, non-homeowner or potential homeowner in the Lower Mainland, I was aware that property values had soared in recent years. I also knew that this was largely due to overseas buyers – and that “overseas buyers” was a euphemism for several strata of mainland Chinese buyers, some of whom are visiting the region on property-buying trips, some of whom live here already (or have family who do) and some who, so sure are they of the wisdom of investing in Vancouver, buy sight unseen from China. …

Until David’s Post-it note showed up, the figures and stories were just … cocktail-party fare that seemed largely divorced from our day-to-day lives. In theory, people who had purchased their homes long ago were now presented with the opportunity to make exponential gains over their initial purchase price. We were in a less rarefied group since we had bought our house only three years ago: a large lot in what we euphemistically called South Kerrisdale, an area realtors call South West Marine that’s frequently called Marpole by our friends. We had paid what had seemed an ungodly sum: $1,875,000, which was, everybody told us, “definitely” the peak of the market. But now, three years later, the stories circulating around town telling of impossible windfalls made our “peak of the market” purchase look as if we’d merely hit the base camp of Mount Everest. And the sudden presence of a suitor opened our eyes to the reality that the mere act of overpaying for a house three years ago might have been the smartest financial decision we had ever made.
 …

It took almost a day for Cynthia to call David back, a period in which we simultaneously imagined spending our impossible gains and then chastised ourselves for such greedy thoughts. One terrible idea then came into our minds: “David doesn’t actually sound like a Chinese name,” Cynthia mused. The implications of such a thought were dire, especially given that, due to his neat handwriting, he clearly wasn’t a doctor either. Even the most reckless North American buyer would be loath to pony up the sort of money we were angling for. We needed someone with a briefcase full of cash if we were to become the next Greek Church House.
But as soon as David picked up the phone, such concerns were assuaged. He spoke in competent but halting English and explained that he was looking for a house for his parents. While driving around town, he discovered our block and thought he’d skip the realtor fees by coming to us directly. He asked if he could return sometime over the next week to see the house, with parents in tow. We cleared our calendar. …

Cynthia mentioned our idea of selling to Mabel, our tough-as-nails next-door neighbour, who was part of the mid-’90s Hong Kong exodus (she has the peach-coloured box to prove it). Mabel often brings potato salad to our house as a gift and once a year at Christmas takes my wife and daughters out for an extravagant Chinese lunch and tells us the state of things, such as, “The former owner of your house was stupid to plant bamboo in your backyard. I told him so. If it disrupts my pipes, I’ll have to sue you.”
Mabel’s response to our thought of selling was equally measured: “You’re crazy.” In 15 years she had yet to develop a touch for the Canadian art of diplomacy. “The Chinese who are coming now are paying with cash – no mortgages. There will never be a downturn because they will never sell at a loss because they don’t have to. They’d rather just give their house to their kids than sell for a loss.” Her message was clear: anyone expecting a major market correction didn’t understand the psychology of the average Chinese purchaser, for whom concepts such as a change in interest rates were of no concern.
Mabel had us second-guessing ourselves. Were we like a mid-’80s Seattle couple selling our Microsoft shares because they had made such nice gains already? …

David and his parents arrived separately, a week after the note had appeared, to tour the house. His parents showed up first in a black Mercedes S600, a $190,000 bank vault on wheels that throughout the world announces, “I’m rich and powerful, and now that that’s out of the way, let’s get down to business.” The father had dark glasses and a stripe of distinguished grey at the temples, and didn’t give his name upon shaking hands; the mother, Maggie, was more gregarious and, as she was taking English lessons, anxious to practice speaking like a local. David, who turned out to be all of 18, arrived a few minutes later in an electric orange $355,000 Lamborghini Murcielago.
The cars alone were a good sign. They marked David and his parents as belonging to the truly wealthy class of Chinese buyers. …

Cynthia led David and his family on the tour as I tagged along. The parents spoke little or no English, so David helped translate such phrases as “steam room with rain-shower fixture” and “programmable Nuheat floor.” (We decided we didn’t want to tax him too much, so we avoided making him translate knob-and-tube wiring.) The parents politely nodded at Cynthia’s detailed chronicling of every upgrade, no matter how small. Halfway through the tour of our cavernous basement, the father muttered something. “My father is very afraid of this space,” deadpanned David. “He would very much like to return upstairs.” In truth, I think we knew that the house tour was a flight of fancy. All the things we had spent $1.85 million on would soon be rubble, replaced most likely by a nondescript house of no discernible era or architectural style.
We moved upstairs to our living room to discuss business. Contrary to the stereotype of tough, straightforward Chinese negotiators, we actually ambled around the question of the house and a selling price for a good half-hour, a long time with most strangers and an eternity when major language barriers exist. Even a month later, I’m at a loss to recall what we talked about. I do recall the line that broke the ice: “The house down the street sells for $1.8 million,” the father instructed David to tell us. It had been an opening salvo but one I was unprepared for.
He was presumably referring to a house a few blocks away in deplorable condition on a small lot. Worse, that price was not only less than we paid but $750,000 below our woefully out-of-date assessed value from the city. The discrepancies were so great that had I been sitting with anyone else my stock response would have been, “What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?” It quickly became apparent we were at cross purposes, but I couldn’t muster any animus. We were the ones who had equated Chinese with irrational spending. They continued to express serious interest in the property, but although we continued to chat for a few minutes I knew our untethered dreams would not be granted by these particular visitors.
 …

Ideally, this would have been a self-contained parable, a caution to greed, prejudgment and a score of other vices. A three-by-three-inch sticky note had turned us into speculators – and now a four-by-four-foot sign rises out of our newly reseeded lawn. The asking price? $3.5 million – twice what we paid just 36 months prior.
The open house is next Saturday.”

Very smart to be selling.
We’d ourselves, however, attribute the resultant $1.6M windfall to exceptional good fortune rather than ‘the smartest financial decision (they) ever made’.
Frank and Cynthia bought in 2008, after the speculative mania was very clearly established (they admit they ‘overpaid’), and they could very well have lost much or all of their RE equity at any point during the 36 month holding period.
If somebody goes to Vegas, puts $1.6M on Black, gets lucky and doubles their money, is it correct to say that the action was “the smartest financial decision they ever made”? – vreaa

44 Responses to Spot The Speculators #47 – $1.6M Tax-Free Profit In 36 Months – “The mere act of overpaying for a house three years ago might have been the smartest financial decision we had ever made.”

  1. Indeed. Smart was not the right word. It does give pause though for how deeply set speculative vines are rooted in Vancouver. Their removal is more than a one-hour episode in a renovation series on TV.

  2. One thing that peeves me about all this press is that, once we start drilling into the numbers and data, how concentrated the recent influx of Asian capital is. Outside a few select neighbourhoods, the effect of this capital wanes significantly; in parts of the province it’s all but non-existent.

    I wonder if BC Business is going to be telling stories of the abandoned condo complexes in the Okanagan, or the impending inventory glut in the eastern Fraser Valley. No, much better to write an article that speaks to its readers, who live in, or pine for, the exclusive neighbourhoods just as much as those bringing their fortunes from abroad who speak little English.

    Meh. I enjoy reading these articles but the more I watch what’s going on in most parts of the province, I’m finding many of these west side anecdotes a bit out of touch with the plights and situations of most British Columbians. Oh well…

    • it’s quality lulz, if nothing

    • granite countertop

      It appears Plaza 88 hasn’t sold out yet. That’s the condo development at New Westminster Skytrain Station. 3 towers: 898 892 888 Carnarvon. They didn’t see the need to be subtle about it. But New West isn’t on the Chinese hit list, so isn’t being snapped up.

      • LOL

        can’t wait for the tenants to be asking WHERE THE HELL IS THE 4TH FLOOR??

      • I live in the newest tower where I rent. A big reason it lacking in sales is because it only has two elevators for starters. Sometimes waiting for them is a pain, especially when one breaks down.

        The parking design is terrible and all the paint scrapes on the walls prove it. No views for 3 sides of the buildings balconies doesn’t help sell units either.

        The prices are too high for what you get if you want to own but spaces are pretty big for the rental price.

        Prices might be justified once the area improves, which is happening everyday, new stores, markets, theater, etc…. But at the same time brings in more people and noise. Personally if I had four hundred thousand plus to spend, I would hate to think this is the beat I could do for the area.

    • “I wonder if BC Business is going to be telling stories of the abandoned condo complexes in the Okanagan, or the impending inventory glut in the eastern Fraser Valley.”…

      Probably not. Ergo, you’re I predict you’re going to chortle uncontrollaby when you see this Sunday’s PostCards From The BlastRadius, Jesse… ;)

      In other regional news, Vancouver’s favourite FugitiveFromJustice – Lai Changxing – has apparently been quite busy entertaining the Richmond Hoi Polloi with a little help from his good friends in Macau…

      [CBC] – Chinese fugitive accused of running gaming operation

      “Fisher told the Immigration and Refugee Board on Monday that his source claims he saw Lai at an illegal gaming operation in Richmond, and he believed Lai was the middleman between that home-based operation and a Macau casino. Fisher also alleged Lai was involved in loan-sharking, and was on friendly terms with members of an Asian crime gang.”…

      http://tinyurl.com/3mzjv6m

      • nem

        what is your opinion of private contracts to genesis security??

        personally i am shocked and not happy with it. blackwater/xe next?

      • The short answer to your query, O GreatKeeper… it sucks.

        The first order question in all matters regarding private provision of public services is, are ‘we’ running a ‘business’ or delivering a “public good”… Invariably, ‘public private partnerships’ and ‘private finance initiatives’ cost taxpayers more and deliver less while enriching political cronies and impoverishing the ‘serfs’ who do the actual work (there is a huge body of rigorous research on the British experience which supports this assertion).

        Taken to it’s extreme (and believe me, it has been), everything becomes a ‘business’ and public goods all but vanish from the civic sphere (and with them, by implication, that elusive ‘social contract’)… Taken to its logical conclusion – when you supplant ‘society’ with ‘market’ – everything is commoditized [esp. people], ability to pay and cumulative advantage become the operative criteria as regards assortative social outcomes [i.e. "who gets what" and social mobility] and civic society dissolves. The operative metric for all human relations is reduced to the purely ‘transactional’.

        Ergo, you end up with a marketized Hobbesian nightmare of dog eat dog, “War of all against all”. For all you diehard OldSchool scholars that’s, “Bellum omnium contra omnes”.

        Here’s a fascinating ‘in extremis’ example – you’d probably call me delusional if I told you that a nuclear power and permanent member of the United Nations Security Council had privatised the design, maintenance, storage, deployment and decommissioning of its nuclear arsenal. You’d be wrong.

        http://tinyurl.com/3oyow9s

  3. “The smartest financial decision we ever made”…

    Inevitably all such ‘decisions’ boil down to DirtyHarry’s interrogative, “You’ve got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky?” (and for those who don’t recall the cinematic context in which that question was posed, the consequences of getting it wrong were…. fatal)…

    Let’s have a look at Blighty, shall we?… where, notwithstanding record prices and surging foreign demand for UltraPrime properties in select central London neighbourhoods, all is apparently not well…

    [NewStatesman] – When rates finally rise, things are set to get nasty

    “The first line of support to households who get pushed over the edge is often those who provide debt advice. So it is telling that the Consumer Credit Counselling Service, a charity that helps those in financial distress, has issued a stark new report on financial fragility in Britain. It estimates that over 750,000 mortgages are in some form of forbearance, and when this is added to the number of mortgages in arrears, the authors get a grand total of 1.2 million mortgages under pressure — that’s more than one in ten of all outstanding mortgages.”

    http://tinyurl.com/424xrlf

    [UK Independent] – House asking prices fall for first time this year

    “House asking prices have fallen for the first time this year as the number of unsold properties on estate agents’ books reaches record levels, a report revealed today.”

    http://tinyurl.com/6kvycdm

  4. I had a similar experience. These folks are not the actual buyers, they’re the realtors (or shills). They target large lots and compare pricing to smaller lots in same neighbourhood. Just tell them to F.O.

    • Yeah one wonders how much “dumb” money is really coming from China. I’ll try to pull the Pierre Burton story of immigration to the prairies at how there were scams going on regarding immigration consulting, land development, etc. With all the recent capital coming in, I expect more than a few scam artists are in tow. Actually I KNOW they are. Don’t ask.

      • better start saving face – both of them

      • @ Jesses. haha. You are right. Yes, they are. I was told recently of a glorious scam artist from china, super well presented, acting as a broker/realtor/ who ripped off a couple of Mainland buyers for MILLIONS before disappearing out of town.

      • they seem quite adept at stabbing each other in the back.

        if you read the forums, there is one fucked up posting by this poor guy who agrees to meet someone to sell his 5 series BMW – big mistake – he gets taken on a test drive in his own car to the top floor of a parking garage – 4 dudes get in the car, etc. etc.

        i love that we’re called foreigners in our own country, btw. :P

  5. I’m glad VREAA cut out the parts about Cam Good. After reading the original article, I became suspicious that it was another marketing stunt by his company.

  6. What $1.6 million windfall? It sounds like the visitors didn’t want to pay nearly that much, and they poster hasn’t yet sold the home. Or did I miss something?

    • These buyers were obviously fishing for low-ball deals.
      The $3.5M is likely the price comps have attained in the neighbourhood, so sales price will likely be in that vicinity (if sells soon).

  7. I had dinner with a friend in San Jose Silicon Valley he is Canadian and been working for a few years at one of the world class companies in the valley, he is got a nice house no doubt it would be past 2 million dollars in the current Vancouver market. A couple of things at dinner were interesting one was that he says valley companies are putting together packages for 200 to 300K to get senior software developers and second was that a house with an identical design to his house on the same street but with major upgrades has been languishing on the market for months a 700K asking price, he attributes that to the 20% minimum down payments that banks now require for buying a house in the USA.

    • “he says valley companies are putting together packages for 200 to 300K to get senior software developers and second was that a house with an identical design to his house on the same street but with major upgrades has been languishing on the market for months a 700K asking price,”

      1) yeah – from what I’m hearing/seeing there is a bidding war on for talent in the industry.
      2) I bet the people that bought that house with the 700K asking price don’t think it “was the smartest decision they ever made.”

  8. WTF? There was no sale. No windfall. Pointless…

  9. vreaa,
    even individuals that don’t make 2x their $ in 36 months say buying a home is the smartest investment they ever made. Let’s try not to trivialize home buying by comparing it to gambling

    • Tell that to the gamblers that speculate with real estate in Vancouver.

      • “she even told me i wasn’t grateful for living in ‘the best place on earth.’ because you know, living conditions fall of a cliff once you drive past hope. you can’t even drink the water or breathe the air.”

        It’s true, you know. In Seattle we all wear gas masks. And we melt when the sun shines because we’re allergic to Vitamin D.

    • I prefer the term “fortunate” as it doesn’t pass judgment on intelligence one way or the other.

      • “dumb luck” isn’t necessarily a bad description

      • Yeah but the best people tend to be lucky. So yeah they were lucky but it sure as heck helps to be good as well. I’ll just pass it off as “fortunate” for now before knowing more in the fullness of time.

      • nobody you know

        “Fortunate” is exactly right.

        I’m only just now able to buy something but the prices are crazy. Many people who were fortunate enough to be in the market 7-8 years ago don’t seem to appreciate how much better off they are for having been born a few years before me.

        Not only do they not seem to realize they dodged a bullet, but they consider themselves to be realty savants because they merely bought a starter home at the stage of life when people tend to buy their first home.

        Their inability to recognize their good fortune has resulted in an entire generation of supremely overconfident first time buyers who think they’re bulletproof.

      • i have a ridiculous thread from my fb wall where the wife of a highschool buddy literally explains in all the gory details – very emotional, too boot – how they financed both their primary SFH and their ‘investment’ townhouse in m.r. – they got a zero down on the townhouse, but it’s ok, because it goes up, and everyone wants to live here. she even told me i wasn’t grateful for living in ‘the best place on earth.’ because you know, living conditions fall of a cliff once you drive past hope. you can’t even drink the water or breathe the air. the irony of it all is that we haven’t spoken in at least a year, and all of a sudden she’s defending her investments when no one even asked her. what does that tell you?

        it’s completely absurd, i’d love to post it – and i probably should for not having been invited to their wedding – i am a slight curmudgeon – but i’m not that much of a petty bitch. i will not laugh at 29 year olds nearly who are probably a 3/4 or close to a million in debt. they’re serious investors, afterall – especially when both sets of their boomer parents loaned them a six figure sum for downpayment at their behest – it was the best investment for them, so it’s gotta work for the kids, too, right?

      • @ Keeper
        I also want to post some ridiculous arguments for prices not declining that some owning friends of mine put up when I tried warning them. Maybe later… The belief really runs deep. I never realised how good the Kool Aid tastes. I am really trying to save greater fools, but have failed to save even one. No one is interested in even entertaining the notion that a decline might occur. Every time I try to get them to just entertain a hypothetical “what would you do, IF the price declined?” The response is always “The price will not decline.”
        “Yes, but just imagine IF, what would you do?”
        “But it will NEVER decline”
        “but just try to pretend…”
        “They will NEVER decline because…..”
        and so it goes on. Incredible.

  10. nobody you know

    “their boomer parents loaned them a six figure sum for downpayment”

    I choose to continue renting because I pay slightly less than half of what it would cost to buy a similar place in my neighbourhood. I have family members who assume my status as a renter proves that I’m an idiot and/or flat broke so they recently told me that they would lend me the down payment for a starter condo and had even looked at a few that would “work for me”.

    When I politely declined the offer they were stunned and I think a little offended. Funny, because I was also a bit offended that they would presume to know better than me the state of my personal finances and life goals. I had to bite my tongue when they kept hammering “cheaper than rent!” even though they are dead wrong and simply don’t know what the f*ck they’re talking about.

  11. btw – I’m kind of confused about the tax free part of the statement. In the states there are taxes, except a single person or widow gets 250K tax free and a married couple 500K tax free. If a widow/widower sells within a year after the death of the spouse he/she gets 500K tax free.

    Surely this couple would not get millions tax free?

  12. I should explain – there is a tax on the $$ ammount the real estate has appreciated.

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