alter at VREAA 22 Jun 2011 5:57pm – “I live in Vancouver and work for a multi-national with an office in Calgary as well. I declined a promotion involving a move to Calgary because it would mean giving up our 1 car lifestyle and fantastic rental condo on the seawall, trading in a temperate climate (albeit rainy) for cold snowy winters, and longer commutes to the outdoor activities we enjoy outside of the city. I’m a regular reader of this blog and do believe housing prices are ridiculous here and wouldn’t buy even if I had the means. But despite having lots of options to move, for some reason we haven’t yet. Also had an opportunity come up in Toronto which I didn’t take either. And I have previously lived in both those cities so have a pretty good idea of what they would have to offer.”
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- Thomasville furniture Nc on The Froogle Scott Chronicles: Mortgaging Our Souls In Paradise – Part 8: Renovation Nervosa Finale
- LadyInWaiting on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- buy cheap digital cameras on MSM Continue To Pump RE – “What’s next? “Cigarettes found to extend lifetime: Marlboro?”
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- bailinginbc on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Real Estate Tsunami on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Real Estate Tsunami on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- LadyInWaiting on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Nemesis on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- terminalcitygirl on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Xyz on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- rod_jonsson on “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
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- 20. The Limitless Demand Argument For Ongoing Market Strength (70)
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- 23. Jumping The Shark (1)
- 24. Policies On Housing (10)
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- Uncategorized (176)
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- 01 Vancouver Condo Info
- 02 AmericaCanada [retired, no archive]
- 03 Housing Analysis
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Latest Anecdotes:
- “My neighbours, in their late 60s, just put their house on the market. They had said they would die in that house, but now they are worried that with the housing market going south they may be losing a lot of equity and they better sell now before it gets worse.”
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
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That makes sense — why leave your job and your lifestyle if you’re happy? A 1 car lifestyle means this family can sock that money away for retirement.
And housing in Calgary has its own problems due to the bubble.
Depends on where in Calgary you are talking about in terms of a bubble. many inner city areas are doing well as people want a shorter commute, closer to downtown, easier lifestyle etc. In the burbs’ there seems to be many listings as well as people that may have over extended themselves. For ourselves the problem is more about jobs if we moved back. What if one of us got a job in Surrey and the other got one downtown, then you have to compromise location. My wife does not want to commute more than 20 minutes each way. We feel that we are best to stay for now, save money and move out there later to enjoy retirement.
I lived on prairie for the first 38 years of my life. There is no way I’d ever go back to those cold winters, cheaper real estate included.
A) Calgary really isn’t “the prairies,” but I digress.
B) Sunny and cold vs. rainy and still pretty cold. I’ll take the sun, thanks.
Not sure if this insight plays into it, but I’ll give it a try in the hopes that others will challenge or de-bunk my analysis. People will be OK with less in the future. They will not demand “more home” they will be happy with what they have, and will choose a better lifestyle over a bigger house. We have done this. Able to afford twice the house, we live in a modest sized place in Amsterdam, but love the lifestyle so much, we simply don’t care. We don’t need 2 cars, or a 2 car garage, we use the equivilant of Zipcars. We don’t have a “media room in the basement” and think it is totally useless and frivolous. I am certain that more people are doing this. Consumption in the 21st Century will be more about experiences, and “using” products rather than owning them. Air BnB, house swaps, yes, these things point to what I’ve termed “enlightened consumption.” How does this apply to Vancouver? two ways: 1) People will stop caring so much about owning a house as the economics simply don’t add up. 2) People will still choose Vancouver, like the guy above, and rent or own a more modest place, with the idea that Vancouver is still a desirable place to live.
I think that all of the things you mention will become more common, but the question is how widespread they will be.
In my field, I interact with urban planners a lot. I hear a lot of statements like “in the future, people will want to live in small condos near the rail line.” Okay fine, maybe more people will want that.
But what you’re really talking about in most New World cities is increasing the number of housholds who live this way from maybe 0% or 2% of the population to maybe 6%. By one metric, that’s tripling this lifestyle, which is great. By another metric, this is still a very small share of all households.
When we were all younger, I saw many of my contemporaries in the urban planning related fields argue that we’ll all be shrinking our footprint and increasing housing density. Then they had kids and bought homes on standard lots. If urban planners themselves make this decision, what is the odds that the rest of the population will?
Anyway, Amsterdam and many Old World cities are very different from our relatively new cities. Which is how many planners over here get into trouble, trying to recreate a European model that never applied here.
We do see the densification model in the downtown core of Vancouver, and though it is not nearly as charming as “old Europe” it is happening and seems to be working. You are correct about family size and space. In Amsterdam half the crowd leaves for the boring ‘burbs so their kids can run around in the backyard. The other half stays and the kids find parks, and pedestrianized streets. I suppose the other big trend is simply less kids/ no kids, and the decline of marriage/monogamy- which will have an impact on housing preferences. Also, if Vancouver is becoming an Asian city, will the same western consumption desires exist? Will the younger gen (Asian or not) prefer to live in Surrey in a big ugly house, or in a small modern glass cube “loft” downtown, close to Michelin starred Asian fusion restos, multiplexes, Lady Gaga nightclubs, and small funky boutiques? I see the duality- the desire for “more stuff” on the one hand- a relic of 20th Century Canadian Tire consumerism= big house, suburb vs. a desire for more experience, but less footprint- modern glass cubes and loftspaces close to densification of “culture.” If you want “authentic” move to Detroit or the South Side of Chicago for affordable space and participate in the rejuvenation of urban ruins.
Like living the single life in Tokyo where you can afford to own clothing and a few electronic devices. No car, no house, no condo, no significant possessions but you go out for dinner and drinks every night. Also, no debt and no worries!
It’s a different matter when you have a family however. In many cases, buying a house 2 – 3 hours away by train from your Tokyo office provides a better home-life for your family but you eventually die before retirement age with the stress of long hours working and commuting and rarely seeing your kids. This explains why many families leave Tokyo to move to smaller cities like Sapporo or Fukushima – they are simply more affordable to raise a family and afford a better quality of life if you have to work for a living.
Generally big cities all over the world can be great places to raise a family if you have lot of money. Vancouver is no different – it just happens to be one of the most expensive cities in the world (in terms of price to income) particularly if you want to live in a single family dwelling. You can cut your consumption of non-necessities to zero but the average person who must work to support his family will not be able to provide as much (in terms of quality and quantity) for his family living in Vancouver compared to most other Canadian cities. If this is the case, who cares whether there’s no snow in Vancouver or Vancouver has flowers in March. There’s just more important things when you have a family.
This helps explain why Vancouver has so many D.I.N.K couples based on my experience. In most cases, Vancouver couples either choose to have no kids or they leave to raise a family. It comes down to the cost of your desired quality of life and whether you have the budget.
Agreed. While we are quite happy with our lifestyle now, we are hoping to start a family in the next couple of years and will have some tough decisions to make given the lack of affordable family friendly housing downtown and surrounds.
We live in New Westminster, and can walk to the Skytrain. We’re also only about 5 minutes from Hwy 1, so we can get almost anywhere. We too are a 1 car family, and love where we live. We think housing prices are insane, but have found a great deal on renting a house in a great neighborhood with nice neighbors.
Would we leave Vancouver? If the right opportunity came up, maybe. But we would much rather stay.
another thing i find funny is people who live in suburbs with terrible traffic to even get into vancouver (love driving kingsway from new west to van…yeesh) still refer to where they live as ‘vancouver.’
gvrd..gvrd
We live in Vancouver because of our extended family and decades long friendships. We rent a SFH and the cost is fine, and we have space.
Must say, though, that we’d still be living closer to downtown if it hadn’t been that “ecodensity” seems to mean up to 850 square feet and no closet space. I’m sick of granite & stainless, more bathrooms than bedrooms, and tiny closets. Ridiculous.
The trends for the homes in the burbs also seem to be to have these massive master bedrooms with ensuites and walk in closets the size of some yaletown condos, while the bedrooms are barely large enough for a bed. We preferred an older neighborhood, where the homes were better built and the bedrooms for the kids are a better size than new homes.