Dclipse at greaterfool.ca 16 Apr 2011 12:15am – “My wife and I just moved here from Mississauga ON. Sold our condo there and renting now in North Van. 2 year old building. Nothing is falling apart yet… but the material and workmanship is disgusting. And btw, it’s a 760 sq. ft. unit worth $450,000 according to similar ones on mls. We sold our 1015 sq.ft 2bed 2bath for $278.000. To say there is a bubble in Van city is an understatement. At least our old place [in Ontario] was excellent quality. And for 6 years we lived there it was as new. If you’re paying big money for a place you should at least have good quality (you would think). Met a guy 2 weeks ago that works for a company fixing leaky condos. Says they’re making a killing. And right now they’re working on a 3 year old building in Yaletown. Can you believe that?”
Most Recent Comments:
- ANON on Chat Thread
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- Hymie Garshman on Taking A Break
- cash loans on South Granville SFH Example – Price Rise Of 120% In Two Years
- paydayloansyeehaw on Erroneous Theories For Falling Prices #5 – Tightening Of Mortgage Rules Caused The Crash
- payday loans on Peppy Ads – “Buying a Home Is Like A Sport. Meet Your Coach. Win The Real Estate Game.”
- Nemesis on Chat Thread
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- 02. Profiting from the Boom (441)
- 03. Changed my Life (103)
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- 05. Where do Buyers get the money? (958)
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- 09. Delaying Buying (315)
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- 11. Regrets about Investing in RE (417)
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- 15. Misallocation of Resources (958)
- 16. Missed The Boat? (236)
- 17. The Froogle Scott Chronicles (27)
- 18. Spot The Speculator (171)
- 19. BlastRadiusPostCards (17)
- 20. The Limitless Demand Argument For Ongoing Market Strength (70)
- 21. Vancouver RE-Verse [Found Poems] (8)
- 22. RE References In Popular Culture (41)
- 23. Jumping The Shark (1)
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- 01 Vancouver Condo Info
- 02 AmericaCanada [retired, no archive]
- 03 Housing Analysis
- 04 RealEstateTalks BC
- 05 Vancouver RE and then some
- 06 Whispers from the Village on the Edge of the Rainforest
- 07 Greater Fool
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- 10 YatterMatters
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- 14 Landlord Rescue
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- 18 World Housing Bubble
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- 20 North American Economics
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Latest Anecdotes:
- Chat Thread
- Taking A Break
- “My best guess: this property is now an ‘investment hold’ and will be built ‘when prices recover’. Good luck on that!”
- Man Loses $745,000 Vancouver Condo Deposit
- Graphic – Degrees of Housing Overvaluation in Canada
- The Rare Individual With A Negative Ownership Premium
- Advice Regarding Renting In Vancouver, Please – “Unfortunately, the Vancouver rental stock is absolutely atrocious. It just seems like every landlord is looking for someone to pay 100% of their mortgage on a crappy place through rental income.”
- “I just visited Manhattan for a week, and happened to snap some real estate ads on both the Upper West and Upper East sides of the island. Compare to Vancouver. It simply doesn’t compute.”
- Ben Rabidoux In Vancouver Next Week
- “The mortgage company told me they were calling in my 40-year, 0-down mortgage. I have paid nearly sixty thousand dollars towards it, but, nearly five years in, I have yet to touch the principal.”
- ‘Vancouver City Hall: Housing Report Card 2012′; Plus Revised Version
- “My folks find themselves at 65 still owing half the value of their home and recreation property to the bank. After almost 30 years of ownership in the BPOE and a number of boom markets, they have very little to show for it.”
- “Rent for $2,200 a month or buy and have a mortgage of $4,310 per month. Why would anyone buy?”
- “They were talking about two couples they knew who had recently bought a lot and planned to each build a house on it and live as neighbours.”
- Greater Vancouver Home Builders’ Association Annual First-Time Buyer Seminar Attendance Plummets
- Mom and Pop Get It Wrong In All Markets, Time And Again
- The average British Columbian homeowner is not going to pay off their mortgage by the time they retire.
- “He’s sold all his properties except his current one, which is now for sale. He explained that the market’s currently in crash mode, worst that he’s ever seen.”
- “One of my old high school buddies finally got her mother to sell the family home in Kitsilano – sold for over $1M, monies realized after debt paid off $185K.”
- “I know someone who just declared bankruptcy because her condo was assessed at $150k and she bought it presale north of $250k in 2005 or 2006.”
- Sturdy, With Views – “Calling Froogle Scott!… Is Dr. Scott ‘In The House’?” [Not In This One, Certainly]
- “She said the market was dead in Victoria and that it would remain so for a very long time. I asked how she knew. Her answer was fascinating and should scare the pants off the real estate crowd.”
- Kits Notes – “I’m pretty sure that this is the first 3+ bedroom property of any type that I’ve seen in the 5 years I’ve lived here that is priced below $700K.”
- “A beautiful Belfast home, in the equivalent of 1st Shaughnessy, bought at their RE peak in 2007 for £3.5 million, has now sold for £800K, almost 80%-off. The market didn’t suffer any significant economic shocks. Rates & unemployment didn’t skyrocket. They didn’t build more land. Sentiment just changed and the prices fell and fell.”
- “Two family members of hers are trapped, underwater, in condos on the East Side.”
- “Interprovincial migration is not saying good things about BC’s economy.”
- Vancouver RE: Not As Expensive Provided You Don’t Think – “It’s clear that our perception of affordability has been coloured by living on a continent where housing is unusually inexpensive.”
- More Undisclosed RE Industry Insiders Publicized As Clients – “In 1995, Allan and Karin Hoegg were mortgage-free. But no more. Today their Vancouver home is a valuable source of income as they plan for full retirement.”
- Rumor that some OV units will be reduced by 20%.
- Downside Weights On The Vancouver RE Market – “One of the older guys (over 60) mention to the guy beside him that he and his wife were thinking about selling their family home, and renting, in order to get some of the money that was locked up in the house.”
- “My buddy was looking to upgrade to a house in the Coquitlam area. With 200k extra for a home, that’s half of lifetime saving between him and his wife.”
- “I was walking in the Fraser neighborhood yesterday, I noticed that the population, on average, seem to be composed of workers. I belong to the top 5 percent in terms of income. Nevertheless, I cannot afford any of the houses for sale in that neighbourhood.”
- “Vancouver is an urban resort whose value mostly resides in its real estate and not much else.”
- “Rogers Communications is expanding into RE; aiming to relaunch website; providing critical data that can help potential buyers assess the value of a property from the comfort of their home computer.”
- I’m only 50 and I can just about retire if I want to, all because of a single simple decision – “When prices rebounded to their former highs, then rocketed another 30% higher to what I considered to be totally unsustainable levels, I decided that only a fool would pass up a second opportunity to harvest such a massive non-taxable capital gain, and in 2011 I sold my place.”
- The Vacant Lot of Versailles, Richmond.
- “I don’t think that most people think things are going to crash, just that there is going to be a slight correction, but it was amazing to me how sentiment has changed, and the fact Vancouver RE is too high was just understood.”
- “The ‘investor’ who purchased our house put it up for sale two months later, in January 1981, but the bubble had burst.”
- For A City To Have That Kind Of Vacancy, It’s Like Cancer – “Downtown, the vacant unit rate is so high that it’s as though there were 35 towers at 20 storeys apiece – all empty.”
- “What’s the worst that can happen? You can’t pay your mortgage, so sell your house! No fear.”
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You are not the only people to leave the east and move west. People from Saskatoon and Winnipeg are also realizing that Vancouver has more to offer in terms of lifestyle and opportunities. Vancouver is called Terminal City because it is the end of the line on mainland Canada. Many people have traveled here from the east, and once breathing the mountain sea-air mixture and living through mild ( though damp) winters, declare this to be Lotus Land. So whether we are in a bubble or not, Vancouver remains a very desireable place to “end-up.”
Yes, Vancouver is desirable, the vast majority of those of us here agree.
But not sure what point you are making, yaotai.
The fact that a place is ‘desirable’ doesn’t mean that people should pay an infinite high premium to live there.
But its simple supply and demand. Actually YES, the fact that this city is a desirable place to live is exactly why people have to pay a premium to live here. Is it any different in Paris? doesn’t matter that there is no “industry” to speak of. People like living in Vancouver and Paris, because they are great cities to live in. They are willing to pay a premium, put up with crappy construction because they have made a conscious decision to live in a place that is better in many other ways. In Paris, people will put up with a tiny, crappy dark apartment and pay a fortune for it. Why? because they have access to a gorgeous city. Why can’t that apply to Vancouver? Maybe the city isn’t as gorgeous ( actually butt ugly) but the overall surroundings are a huge draw.
I find people moving from parts east are surprised how much more expensive Vancouver is for what you get.
Yeah. And the vast majority of visitors to Vancouver are absolutely gobsmacked by the prices.
It’s funny.
Over the last few months I have met a lot of people who recently moved here from Europe as well as many Canadians who had worked in Europe and couldn’t find another job and went back to Canada and chose Vancouver.
The biggest problem most of them seem to have is finding a job, not to mention a good paying one at that. Rent/buying for many also seems to be a problem.
Oh, and out of habit I asked if the Olympics made them chose Vancouver, all of them so far have denied it, they said it was mostly the lack of cold that appealed to them.
To be clear I was referring not only to the high cost of buying real estate but also the general level of prices. Rents are generally lower than, say, Toronto, but the anecdote rightly points out there is a quality issue that isn’t well controlled when doing apples-to-apples comparisons.
The cost of food and transportation (gas and cars) is higher and not just due to the taxes. (Australia, Hawaii and New Zealand have higher prices too; I think much of it is economy of scale and transportation costs — look at the packaging of the food you buy and look where it was packaged, almost always in Ontario/Quebec and shipped to Vancouver. Vancouver is still a remote outpost in Canada’s economy.)
I can only speak for myself, but most of my veggies come from a green grocer across the street and most of their stuff either hails from California, Washington or is local. I have not seen any “grown in Ontario” produce there.
Meat seems to be mostly coming from AB, based on the inspection signs / papers I have seen.
I do buy very little packaged / processed food though, maybe I need to take a look, but I remember the can of mushrooms I bought recently in a hurry (they were out of fresh ones) originated in China.
I think the main problem for most people here is that they don’t really compare prices. I have lived in the neighbourhood now for five years, I have several stores around me and I know the price differences between the different places, so my “shopping run” is usually split between different stores to pick up different items. You can live quite cheaply here if you know where to buy and put a bit of effort in it.
BTW, as far as food in Ontario goes. A friend went back to Ontario for a few weeks due to a family emergency and when he came back he told me that he was shocked about the food prices in Mississauga. He said he’d paid almost 1/3 more for the basics he bought there than what he was paying here. Having lived DT Toronto I had the opposite “shock effect” when I came here, I saw prices here higher (especially for fresh fruit and veg) but it seems the outlying Suburbs in Toronto may not be as cheap as one thinks.
I imagine part of the shock of prices either way is as you’ve mentioned – any place you go, you’ll find that some stores are better for certain items, and maybe you’ll spread your shopping around or make different choices. I’m sure there are foods I eat here (like salmon?) that by their nature would be more expensive in Ontario, so I would eat something else there. Hence regional cuisine.
I can’t think of a way to really compare. A cart to cart comparison at a particular chain that contained staples bought in similar per capita quantities anywhere in Canada? Milk, rice, eggs, sugar, bread?
Good points Michael, it will depend where you shop.
As one anecdotal datum (we are after all on vreaa!) I did a quick search in Toronto for bread: on sale $2.50/loaf. The lowest I’ve seen in Vancouver is $3.50 for the same brand. I think a “Costco to Costco” comparison would reveal interesting comparisons, and not “apples to apples” because BC Hothouse alters that market
I still argue there is an economy of scale issue happening — Ontario/Quebec can be way more efficient with its transportation network than Vancouver simply because it serves at least 5 times the population. Like you I don’t buy much in the way of processed/packaged foods so my inflation costs are much more aligned with the Pacific Rim.
We live in one of Vancouver’s most famous high rises (lease) on English Bay. People that own are getting cranked $700 a month maintenance fees – and I can tell you with alacrity – they are going to have to rain screen this place.
Some of the condos here are over 10 million and all the windows leak.
I was soaking up rivers this past winter.
The floors slope and the windows are all torqued.
I can only imagine the GARBAGE that is being sold in Yaletown.
A hint to the wise – I think this was mentioned earlier here on VREAA – ANYTHING that built in Vancouver post 1988 is crazy.
California building codes? HUH>?
How much rain does LA get; I mean, come on.
The workmanship – because of the shortage of skilled workers, meant you had kids hammering and pouring, and usually in the pouring rain.
In a word = CRAP.
Which tower? Name it or else your post is worthless.
My bet is that its the Presidio.