
Forget foreign speculators, the real gamblers driving this market absolutely bananas have been the seemingly-innocuous, common-or-garden local buyers who, in addition to their personal residences, have purchased one or more ‘investment’ properties. We have described them as one of the Major Players, ‘Local Investors; Households That Own Two or More Properties’. They are a particularly important group of owners because we anticipate that many will sell their RE investments when the premise for holding them, namely rising prices, disappears. Thus they will sell into price drops, potentially adding to a price cascade. It has been impossible to calculate their exact number, but anecdotes like the following three suggest they make up a significant subgroup. -vreaa
anonymousAA at vancouvercondo.info 12 May 8:44 am – “Here’s something I’ve been considering lately, after my partner came home last night and was envious that a coworker has recently purchased yet another house. A “good deal” $750k instead of the list price of $800k or so. This is his oh, 6th house purchase? He’s been playing monopoly, buying more and more houses for the past 20 years or so, so I guess that’s how he finances these rentals (lots of equity-well, the older ones). Another co-worker has also done the same thing, 3 rentals in the last 18 months (though one hasn’t worked out and is sitting vacant at a cost of $2000/month!). I also personally know several people who are playing this monopoly game, buying several houses as rentals. Some people I know make $55k per year and yet have $650k in outstanding mortgages. This must be common, anyone else know people in this situation? And meanwhile my partner moans that we don’t even have one house, let alone six!
How can this end well, when rates go up? Sure, you have a few hundred bucks left over at the end of the month from the rental after paying your VRM, but what about when rates are 5.25%? You can only raise the rent so much.”
space889 at vancouvercondo.info 12 may 2010 9:25 am - “I know someone who joined [an RE investment group] in 2008 and within 18 months bought like 3 condos along with $700K+ mortgage, at least 1 condo was in Edmonton, too. Since I don’t know him that well, I didn’t really want to ask him how his investments are doing. He was very excited and trying to get a lot of people involved and start creating wealth together! The good thing about him is that he works for the government with 5 years+ seniority so he’s fairly safe from being laid-off and he gets a guaranteed pension that I think is protected from creditors. Still you have to admit these people’s bravery (regardless of whether you think it’s stupid or not) on taking on so much debt and not being worried about it. That’s guts, man….I wouldn’t be able to sleep well at night if I owed $700K+ and personally liable for it. Ah well, I guess sometimes to make the big money, ignorance of risks helps”.
Rent385 at vancouvercondo.info 12 May 2010 9:44 am – “I also know a few people that have accumulated multiple properties for rental purposes (over the last decade or so). Many of them are not selling right now. They are aware that the market will mellow and interest rates will rise, but somehow, they are going to be fine. One of them (who makes ~$100K) has purchased 3 bungalows, one with a suite, all in the tri-cities area. Even with his income, he must be carrying 600k+ in mortgages. I can’t see him renting the units for >$3500 (total for all three). Is he going to make money? I guess he’s hoping that over the long term RE prices will continue to go up (perhaps with some inflation to help out). If he can keep his mortgages under control (and if there is some inflation) then he’ll probably come out on top.”
Junius added this comment 10:08 am – “I believe this is much more widespread than people in Vancouver commonly acknowledge. When the bloom comes off the market it is these investors looking to exit that will bring prices down fast.” [We agree -ed.]
UPDATE: Additional relevant anecdote:
ibought3 at vancouvercondo.info 13 May 2010 11:49 am – “I know a number of friends that bought in the last two months. Two of them earn very average salaries probably around 40-60k, and they have purchased to become landlords. Several are just first time home buyers.”
































Back a couple of years at the peak of the housing Boom here in Edmonton, the same idiocy was taking place. An acquaintance of a co-worker purchased 4 spec homes. He foolishly believed that house prices go nowhere but up and purchased these homes with the full intent of never setting foot inside. He was going to flip them as soon as they were built. The problem was he bought at the point the market was turning. By the time they were completed, the market had come to a very startling grinding halt. All of a sudden, his 4 “wealth generating” homes became a financial sinkhole. He decided to walk away from the houses but was than promptly sued by the developer. To make a long story short, he lost a bundle and quickly discovered that Real Estate can make you very poor very quickly especially in a Bubble environment.
@MarV
No sympathy for the speculator.
i rememer in 2007 trying to convince a budy not to take a spec assignment in a house or atleast talk them down to taking an existing property in the inner city so it would be more liquid… no luck
Some play the stock market and some play real estate…some go to Vegas.
Jim -> Okay, but it’s best to bet when you have some kind of edge. Many speculators buying and holding 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, properties in Vancouver at present are like drunken gamblers going ‘all-in’ on very mediocre hands. (And that’s ‘all-in’, as in ‘entire-net-worth-in’, with leverage.)
And another thing: When somebody goes to Vegas and puts it all on black, or buys TSX calls on a hunch, they don’t directly mess with our society in the same way as somebody who overbids 25% on their third or fourth overpriced Vancouver property. The RE gambler has greatly inconvenienced us all, and we’re going to be paying off his gambling debts, one way or another, for some time.
@vreaa
Let’s have debtors prison just like Dubai. That will pop the bubble.